Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
KK
Moderator
Joined in 2008
Location: Botswana
Contact:

PostApple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by KK » Tue May 15, 2018 9:08 am

The Guardian wrote:Apple facing class action lawsuit over defective MacBook Pro keyboards
Plaintiffs complain of frustration at design that has left keys prone to becoming stuck, leaving laptops unusable

Apple is facing a class action lawsuit over the design of its MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards which, consumers complain, has keys that are prone to becoming stuck.

The lawsuit follows a litany of complaints across user forums, specialist media and a petition with over 21,000 signatures urging Apple to recall the Mac laptops released since late 2016.

“Because of the new keyboard design, consumers report that fixing affected keys requires replacing the whole keyboard, which costs $700,” Girard Gibbs, counsel for the plaintiffs, state. “Because typing is the primary purpose of laptops, over time, consumers have become more and more frustrated with the keyboard defect.”

In 2015 Apple introduced a new key switch mechanism that allowed it to produce a keyboard much thinner and with a smaller amount of travel. It was first used on the 12in MacBook laptop, and then later on the redesigned MacBook Pro line from late 2016.

The “butterfly” mechanism replaced the older “scissor” mechanism, which is still used by the majority of laptop keyboards, and was intended to make the keys more stable and responsive when pressed.

But the plaintiffs claim the redesign has resulted in a defective product: “Apple’s butterfly keyboard and MacBook are produced and assembled in such a way that when minimal amounts of dust or debris accumulate under or around a key, keystrokes fail to register.”

As typing is the keyboard’s primary input for the laptops, the plaintiffs argue that when a keys become stuck on the MacBook or MacBook Pro the machines, which cost upwards of £1,249, become “unsuitable for its ordinary and intended use”.

The lawsuit argues that “Apple has failed to disclose that the keyboard is defective, and this information would have been important to Plaintiffs’ decision to purchase a MacBook” and that even after repair the problem reoccurs.

Clearing dust and debris out of the keyboard is difficult. Apple has a guide on how to clean a MacBook or MacBook Pro keyboard with compressed air, but further treatment requires repair by technicians.

Apple did not immediately comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -keyboards

Forbes wrote:Is The MacBook Pro Keyboard Apple's 'Biggest Design Screwup'?

Since it was launched, many of the features of Apple’s latest MacBook Pro have failed to catch the imagination. The promise of the TouchBar has not been built on, macOS has become ever more subservient to iOS, and now trust in a fundamental part of the package is failing.

That part is the keyboard. It has become clear that the geekerati believe the keyboard to not be fit for purpose. Casey Johnston has suffered from multiple faulty MacBook Pro keyboards with numerous exchanges and replacements. She has decided this is enough:

I still had my 2013 MacBook Pro around, so I sold my 2016 MacBook Pro back to Apple’s refurb program, and now I just use the 2013 as my laptop (I used the recovered money to build a PC, lord help me). This old MacBook Pro is still fine, and most importantly, all the keyboard keys work. The new MacBook Pro is gone. When I started working at The Outline, I was offered a choice of a new MacBook Pro or a MacBook Air for my work computer, and I chose the MacBook Air, with its good keyboard that doesn’t break from dust. I’m fully committed to this bit.

Apple has not stated how widespread the problem has become (just how to address the issue) but the anecdotal evidence online, through communities on Reddit and YCombinator to popular Apple writers such as Daring Fireball’s Jon Gruber, are on the rise. Gruber has returned to the issue this week with a short but brutal summary:

This keyboard has to be one of the biggest design screwups in Apple history. Everyone who buys a MacBook depends upon the keyboard and this keyboard is undependable.

Just like the issues around the longevity of the battery in the iPhone, control over the perception of the MacBook Pro keyboard is slipping away from Tim Cook and Apple. On a practical level, the MacBook Pro keyboard is not Apple’s biggest design screw-up… the screw-up is in not publicly addressing the issue and allowing the idea of a broken keyboard to become established online.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence ... 828ea377c7

Anyone here have any experience with these keyboards?

Apple reponse: 'You're using your £3000 work of art wrong.'

Image
User avatar
Wrathy
Member
Joined in 2015
Location: Location: Location: Location:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Wrathy » Tue May 15, 2018 9:31 am

I was in the market for a new MacBook in the Christmas of 2016 and partially made the decision to get a 2015 model based on this new keyboard. While were other reasons - price, size, etc - I think the older Pro is one of if not the best premium laptop model of all time, so i was already happy with the decision and this coming out makes me all the happier with it.

User avatar
Mafro
Moderator
Joined in 2008
AKA: DAT MAF
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Mafro » Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 am

Got a mid-2017 MacBook Pro in November and it’s fine so far (touch wood)

HSH28 wrote:Assmung you ever get one that is.

Blog | Twitter
User avatar
Peter Crisp
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Peter Crisp » Tue May 15, 2018 10:23 am

I've been watching stuff by Louis Rossmann recently who's a repair technician and shows how Apple screw people who just want to repair Apple products, the technicians themselves and are now involving the US customs department by claiming refurbished screens are counterfeit and having them confiscated.
Apple come across as completely anti-consumer and they've tried this "You're using it wrong!" defence when the released a phone with shitty reception and claimed people were "holding it wrong" so yeah, I have no faith in the company.

The odd part is just how much people are willing to be screwed by Apple and still be Apple fans and claim and criticism of the company is flat out lies.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Jenuall » Tue May 15, 2018 10:40 am

We had one of the new MacBook Pro's at work for testing on a project last year - the keyboard was utter garbage. We never had any problems with keys not responding, but then it didn't get all that much usage day to day. The main problem was the new design just feels bad - there's an appalling lack of feedback to the user during typing and it's just horrible to work with.

Given how great the old Pro keyboard was it's a surprise to see Apple release something that is so fundamentally shite.

ImageImage
User avatar
KK
Moderator
Joined in 2008
Location: Botswana
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by KK » Tue May 15, 2018 5:53 pm

I was planning to buy a MacBook Pro soon so this is a little worrying, especially when spending so much money (and even with John Lewis’ 2 year guarantee).

I do mentally go back and forth between buying a MacBook Pro or spending considerably less on a Joe Average PC instead.

First World Problems.

Image
User avatar
Ironhide
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Autobot City

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Ironhide » Tue May 15, 2018 6:33 pm

How does it cost $700 to replace a strawberry floating keyboard?

This kind of gooseberry fool is why Apple will never see a penny of my money.

Image
User avatar
Jam-Master Jay
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Stourbridge
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Jam-Master Jay » Tue May 15, 2018 6:58 pm

Bought from Apple once, never again.

Image
User avatar
TigaSefi
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by TigaSefi » Tue May 15, 2018 7:56 pm

Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

Image

1 > 2 > 3 >>>>>>> 4 >>>>> 5
User avatar
Vermilion
Member
Joined in 2018
Location: Everywhere
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Vermilion » Tue May 15, 2018 8:02 pm

Apple users have been responsible for at least 50% of all smug released into the atmosphere over the last ten years.

User avatar
Mafro
Moderator
Joined in 2008
AKA: DAT MAF
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Mafro » Tue May 15, 2018 8:07 pm

8-)

HSH28 wrote:Assmung you ever get one that is.

Blog | Twitter
User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Errkal » Tue May 15, 2018 8:09 pm

TigaSefi wrote:Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

This they have gotten very very lazy with quality control since his death and stuff. At the point visual bugs are making it into Adverts they have very much lost their shine.

User avatar
Saint of Killers
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Saint of Killers » Tue May 15, 2018 8:22 pm

Apple are a right bunch of sketchy strawberry floaters:









1:01 - A1226/A1260 2007-2008 Macbook GPU failures, warranty service refusal
2:21 - A1226/A1260 2007-2008 Macbook Pro hinge/frame problem
3:16 - A1286 Macbook Pro - the "Unibody" myth, glued together pieces fall apart
4:58 - A1286/A1297 MCP power circuit failure due to poor buck converter design: C7771 issue
6:01 - iPhone 4 cellular placement fail 7:12 - iPhone 5 power button problem
7:27 - A1286 2010 Macbook Pro GPU kernel panics due to same buck converter defect from 2008/2009(this gives you a hint that apple engineers doesn't give a crap about engineering good products, same design flaw for three straight years)
10:04 - A1286 2011 Macbook Pro GPU failure, Apple gets sued over not addressing problem.
11:43 - Apple gives out badly refurbished boards as warranty replacements for 2011 GPU failures.
13:06 - 2012 Retina Macbook Pro: another motherboard issue (U8900), due to poor soldering/manufacturing method on the GPU buck converter. 14:46 - Mac Pro GPU failure (again).
16:27 - iPhone 6/6+ touchscreen issue due to structural issue.
18:23 - SSD soldered straight into the motherboard+ chip that would kill the macbook, because a power line would short out to ground when the chip dies.
20:18 - 2016 Macbook keyboard reliability issue.
21:52 - 2016 Macbook Battery failure issue.
22:50 - A1278 Macbook Pro SATA cable failures(yes, really).


Ignore the cheesy acting in the Linus video and the stupid thumbnail white text in Louis Rossmann's. Apple are so anti-consumer it's mind boggling. Yeah, it hasn't happened to many in this thread and I am genuinely happy for you, but after learning of this gooseberry fool I have sworn I will never buy their products until they change their ways.

| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
User avatar
<]:^D
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by <]:^D » Wed May 16, 2018 11:15 am

i really dont understand Apple's position. they are apparently sitting on tons of money, yet instead of acting in good faith towards their customers they seem hell-bent on being as difficult as possible to deal with if you have a genuine problem with any of their devices.
maybe thats why they have so much money, or the 'elite' act helps to sell more? i'm inclined to stay away permanently.

User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Jenuall » Wed May 16, 2018 11:33 am

Errkal wrote:
TigaSefi wrote:Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

This they have gotten very very lazy with quality control since his death and stuff. At the point visual bugs are making it into Adverts they have very much lost their shine.


Whilst I would agree that they have declined post Jobs, in terms of quality and progress at least - they are making a strawberry float tonne more money now, things were already getting sketchy toward the end of the Jobs era.

The iPhone 4 "you're holding it wrong" issue was under Jobs' watch for example. Always makes me chuckle that one - they withheld the white iPhone 4 because of a cosmetic issue (they were struggling to make one that looked nice enough) but rushed out the black version despite the design being fundamentally flawed from a functional/technical perspective. Apple - putting style over substance since 1976! :lol:

ImageImage
User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Errkal » Wed May 16, 2018 11:37 am

Jenuall wrote:
Errkal wrote:
TigaSefi wrote:Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

This they have gotten very very lazy with quality control since his death and stuff. At the point visual bugs are making it into Adverts they have very much lost their shine.


Whilst I would agree that they have declined post Jobs, in terms of quality and progress at least - they are making a strawberry float tonne more money now, things were already getting sketchy toward the end of the Jobs era.

The iPhone 4 "you're holding it wrong" issue was under Jobs' watch for example. Always makes me chuckle that one - they withheld the white iPhone 4 because of a cosmetic issue (they were struggling to make one that looked nice enough) but rushed out the black version despite the design being fundamentally flawed from a functional/technical perspective. Apple - putting style over substance since 1976! :lol:


They are making masses more money however if they loose the focus on quality it will bite them hard, they are a company built on their design being gooseberry fool hot and if they slip too far they will get burned hard.

The 4 thing was a big cock up but there were many not like there seem to be these days.

User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Jenuall » Wed May 16, 2018 11:46 am

Errkal wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Errkal wrote:
TigaSefi wrote:Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

This they have gotten very very lazy with quality control since his death and stuff. At the point visual bugs are making it into Adverts they have very much lost their shine.


Whilst I would agree that they have declined post Jobs, in terms of quality and progress at least - they are making a strawberry float tonne more money now, things were already getting sketchy toward the end of the Jobs era.

The iPhone 4 "you're holding it wrong" issue was under Jobs' watch for example. Always makes me chuckle that one - they withheld the white iPhone 4 because of a cosmetic issue (they were struggling to make one that looked nice enough) but rushed out the black version despite the design being fundamentally flawed from a functional/technical perspective. Apple - putting style over substance since 1976! :lol:


They are making masses more money however if they loose the focus on quality it will bite them hard, they are a company built on their design being gooseberry fool hot and if they slip too far they will get burned hard.

The 4 thing was a big cock up but there were many not like there seem to be these days.


Oh yeah I agree that it's definitely a bad situation that they need to rectify - the frequency of issues does seem to be increasing, both in terms of hardware problems and software issues which would have seemed highly unlikely 5 - 10 years ago.

That said the kind of Apple fans that I tend to see around seem to be able to ignore anything bad and still believe that Apple are awesome - I don't know what it would take for some people to finally give up their iPhone's/Macs!

ImageImage
User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Errkal » Wed May 16, 2018 11:51 am

Jenuall wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Errkal wrote:
TigaSefi wrote:Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

This they have gotten very very lazy with quality control since his death and stuff. At the point visual bugs are making it into Adverts they have very much lost their shine.


Whilst I would agree that they have declined post Jobs, in terms of quality and progress at least - they are making a strawberry float tonne more money now, things were already getting sketchy toward the end of the Jobs era.

The iPhone 4 "you're holding it wrong" issue was under Jobs' watch for example. Always makes me chuckle that one - they withheld the white iPhone 4 because of a cosmetic issue (they were struggling to make one that looked nice enough) but rushed out the black version despite the design being fundamentally flawed from a functional/technical perspective. Apple - putting style over substance since 1976! :lol:


They are making masses more money however if they loose the focus on quality it will bite them hard, they are a company built on their design being gooseberry fool hot and if they slip too far they will get burned hard.

The 4 thing was a big cock up but there were many not like there seem to be these days.


Oh yeah I agree that it's definitely a bad situation that they need to rectify - the frequency of issues does seem to be increasing, both in terms of hardware problems and software issues which would have seemed highly unlikely 5 - 10 years ago.

That said the kind of Apple fans that I tend to see around seem to be able to ignore anything bad and still believe that Apple are awesome - I don't know what it would take for some people to finally give up their iPhone's/Macs!


Fan bois will never turn as they are blind, but the more software issues will turn of companies from iPads on security grounds, and will gradually eat away at the "casual" consumer that gets on because it looks nice and have heard it is good.

User avatar
Green Gecko
Director
Joined in 2008
Location: Sussex
Contact:

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Green Gecko » Wed May 16, 2018 11:51 am

Saint of Killers wrote:Apple are a right bunch of sketchy strawberry floaters:









1:01 - A1226/A1260 2007-2008 Macbook GPU failures, warranty service refusal
2:21 - A1226/A1260 2007-2008 Macbook Pro hinge/frame problem
3:16 - A1286 Macbook Pro - the "Unibody" myth, glued together pieces fall apart
4:58 - A1286/A1297 MCP power circuit failure due to poor buck converter design: C7771 issue
6:01 - iPhone 4 cellular placement fail 7:12 - iPhone 5 power button problem
7:27 - A1286 2010 Macbook Pro GPU kernel panics due to same buck converter defect from 2008/2009(this gives you a hint that apple engineers doesn't give a crap about engineering good products, same design flaw for three straight years)
10:04 - A1286 2011 Macbook Pro GPU failure, Apple gets sued over not addressing problem.
11:43 - Apple gives out badly refurbished boards as warranty replacements for 2011 GPU failures.
13:06 - 2012 Retina Macbook Pro: another motherboard issue (U8900), due to poor soldering/manufacturing method on the GPU buck converter. 14:46 - Mac Pro GPU failure (again).
16:27 - iPhone 6/6+ touchscreen issue due to structural issue.
18:23 - SSD soldered straight into the motherboard+ chip that would kill the macbook, because a power line would short out to ground when the chip dies.
20:18 - 2016 Macbook keyboard reliability issue.
21:52 - 2016 Macbook Battery failure issue.
22:50 - A1278 Macbook Pro SATA cable failures(yes, really).


Ignore the cheesy acting in the Linus video and the stupid thumbnail white text in Louis Rossmann's. Apple are so anti-consumer it's mind boggling. Yeah, it hasn't happened to many in this thread and I am genuinely happy for you, but after learning of this gooseberry fool I have sworn I will never buy their products until they change their ways.

I have the 2010 model in that video featured at 7:27. It cost £1650 and grey screen of deaths multiple times per day (as in multiple times per hour at worst). I have to use an app called GfxCardStatus to force the machine to only use the i7's graphics, which takes 512MB of memory out of action and disables all hardware graphics acelleration, and some apps won't work without that. I've bought the replacement capacitors and just need to get an electrical engineer friend of mine to fit it, but it's hillarious that single component failure can kill such an expensive machine within a few years.

So yeah, don't assume MacBooks are reliable machines. They by definition aren't.

I also wasn't elegible for that extended warranty even though my machine was registered with Apple I wasn't aware of it. These should be product recall issues but instead they are public secrets because fanboys or apple don't want to recognise the problems.

(I also had to replace a part for the wifi which died for no reason. As well as the backspace key after just a few weeks.)

(Oh and I also had to replace the power supply after it singed i.e. shorted, and almost set fire. They cost £85. I managed to get a free one after debating with a "genius" for about an hour based on consumer protection law but they blacked out the serial code so that I couldn't get a replacement of that one if it fails.)

So that's 4 pretty serious hardware failures for a £1650 top spec, top of the line machine. Apples design is good, but not perfect, their engineering is 100% geared towards pleasing aesthetics and not functionality. Make of this what you will.

Support GRcade | t: @GRcade | FB: GRcadeUK | YT: GRcadeVideo | Twitch: GRcadeUK
Image
Image
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Apple facing lawsuit and petition over crappy keyboard
by Jenuall » Wed May 16, 2018 11:59 am

Errkal wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Errkal wrote:
TigaSefi wrote:Steve Jobs wouldn't have stood for this gooseberry fool at all.

This they have gotten very very lazy with quality control since his death and stuff. At the point visual bugs are making it into Adverts they have very much lost their shine.


Whilst I would agree that they have declined post Jobs, in terms of quality and progress at least - they are making a strawberry float tonne more money now, things were already getting sketchy toward the end of the Jobs era.

The iPhone 4 "you're holding it wrong" issue was under Jobs' watch for example. Always makes me chuckle that one - they withheld the white iPhone 4 because of a cosmetic issue (they were struggling to make one that looked nice enough) but rushed out the black version despite the design being fundamentally flawed from a functional/technical perspective. Apple - putting style over substance since 1976! :lol:


They are making masses more money however if they loose the focus on quality it will bite them hard, they are a company built on their design being gooseberry fool hot and if they slip too far they will get burned hard.

The 4 thing was a big cock up but there were many not like there seem to be these days.


Oh yeah I agree that it's definitely a bad situation that they need to rectify - the frequency of issues does seem to be increasing, both in terms of hardware problems and software issues which would have seemed highly unlikely 5 - 10 years ago.

That said the kind of Apple fans that I tend to see around seem to be able to ignore anything bad and still believe that Apple are awesome - I don't know what it would take for some people to finally give up their iPhone's/Macs!


Fan bois will never turn as they are blind, but the more software issues will turn of companies from iPads on security grounds, and will gradually eat away at the "casual" consumer that gets on because it looks nice and have heard it is good.


Indeed, although I think the "eco-system" nature of computing these days has done a pretty good job of locking people in. I suspect the amount of wobbling required to make casuals jump ship is getting higher as people are now so embedded in MacOS/iOS.

Back in the day you didn't necessarily expect your previous software to work when buying a new bit of kit, even on Windows, so making a switch to a different manufacturer or OS was somewhat less of an issue - now everyone expects their 10 years of history with a device to carry forward with each new version and so the level of aggravation required for them to reach "escape velocity" is certainly higher.

Apple are definitely due a reality check though!

ImageImage

Return to “Stuff”