Are some games too big for their own good?

Jak II was too big. They took a really well designed hub and spoke style world from the first game and blew it up into a poor attempt at a GTA style open city.

I didn't enjoy having to drive an annoying flying car across an oversized, dirty futuristic city, constantly bumping into other vehicles quite as much as I enjoyed running and jumping through the beautiful set of cleverly designed worlds from the first game!

Jenuall wrote:Jak II was too big. They took a really well designed hub and spoke style world from the first game and blew it up into a poor attempt at a GTA style open city.

I didn't enjoy having to drive an annoying flying car across an oversized, dirty futuristic city, constantly bumping into other vehicles quite as much as I enjoyed running and jumping through the beautiful set of cleverly designed worlds from the first game!

Woah now, you can't say these things now I have a pink name

I have lost literally hundreds of hours to just messing around in the city in Jak II, it's wonderful. I also think it's a complete disservice to say the city isn't cleverly designed, given the varying mission types that are woven through it. Various parts work as race courses, hover board parks, and shooting arenas. It's a densely designed city with very distinct districts that are instantly recognisable, have their own feel both thematically and in gameplay, and work with and enhance the narrative.

It's also not the game's fault you're bad at driving!

You don't scare me anymore... p-..pink name!!

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Jak II was too big. They took a really well designed hub and spoke style world from the first game and blew it up into a poor attempt at a GTA style open city.

I didn't enjoy having to drive an annoying flying car across an oversized, dirty futuristic city, constantly bumping into other vehicles quite as much as I enjoyed running and jumping through the beautiful set of cleverly designed worlds from the first game!

Woah now, you can't say these things now I have a pink name

I have lost literally hundreds of hours to just messing around in the city in Jak II, it's wonderful. I also think it's a complete disservice to say the city isn't cleverly designed, given the varying mission types that are woven through it. Various parts work as race courses, hover board parks, and shooting arenas. It's a densely designed city with very distinct districts that are instantly recognisable, have their own feel both thematically and in gameplay, and work with and enhance the narrative.

It's also not the game's fault you're bad at driving!

Pink name, schmink name!

I have to say I found Jak II to be one of the most disappointing sequels I've experienced. I LOVED The Precursor Legacy, to my mind it is still the most enjoyable game Naughty Dog have produced - I devoured it on release and still replay it when I get the chance.

I was so incredibly hyped for Jak II but they absolutely ruined the joy of the game in so many ways - introducing guns and their very poor implementation of them, the inferior setting, the attempt to copy a GTA-style open city but without the confidence, style and panache of Rockstar, the terrible driving, even just giving Jak a voice was a huge mistake!

I haven't even bothered to try the later games in the series, that's how much Jak II disappointed me!

Also the cars handle terribly in the game, combined with the ridiculous density of NPC's it is just not a fun game to explore.

Jezo wrote:You don't scare me anymore... p-..pink name!!

Banned for your avatar not being animated enough

Jenuall wrote:I haven't even bothered to try the later games in the series, that's how much Jak II disappointed me!

You're missing out on some brilliant games. Jak3 has some superb pure platforming mixed in there, and if it's a pure platforming experience you want more akin to TPL, then Daxter has you covered. TLF also feels a lot closer to TPL in some ways, especially with some of the level design and the eco powers.

[quote="OrangeRakoon"

100% agree on Banjo-Tooie, I think that's the best example in this thread. Was really a much inferior game just because of it's expanded scope.[/quote]

I think Rare were the most guilty of this during the latter days of the N64. Dk64, JFG and Tooie were all just too big and it didn’t fit the style of their games. BK was so much fun because it was stuffed with fun and ideas, but their later games were just vast and bare spaces. Tooie was so ahead of its time and Mario Odyssey rips off a lot of its ideas but at the time there just wasn’t the technology to match the scale of their ambition.

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Jezo wrote:You don't scare me anymore... p-..pink name!!

Banned for your avatar not being animated enough

I-it's a work in progress..!!

;-;

Errkal wrote:

Jezo wrote:

Errkal wrote:

Jezo wrote:Botw

I wouldn't say it is that big, you can move between places pretty quickly even on foot and because you can fast travel to shrines and towers it means going back a small way is easy.

Skyim I would say is too big, it takes too long to get places for the first time just because they could.

The question is are games too big for their own good, not are some games bigger than others.

That's what I was answering botw I wouldn't say is too big for it down good for the reasons I mention. Skyrim I think is because there is too much empty stuff between places.

I would imagine that in Skyrim's case they leave empty space on purpose as it makes it easier for modders to then come in and build towns or ruins and place them in a more organic way into the landscape. Otherwise you would need to make some new land somewhere, or everything would have to be done through some magic door that acts as a portal.

I refuse to accept that BotW isn't too big for its own good, but that Skyrim is. Reeks of BotW Defence Force, stop being silly.

They're both massive games, but Skyrim offers dungeons, caves, tombs, castles, forts, bandit camps and ships to explore, packed full of loot and side quests. It's hardly this empty landscape with nothing to do in it.

Skyrim isn't empty, but it's size is not matched by variety in design. The caves and forts are very copy and paste, so if I was going to argue for it being too big I'd say it's through needless padding.

I wouldn't want it smaller though, I'd just want better writing and quests to make things feel more unique as opposed to "go here, fetch x"

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Jenuall wrote:I haven't even bothered to try the later games in the series, that's how much Jak II disappointed me!

You're missing out on some brilliant games. Jak3 has some superb pure platforming mixed in there, and if it's a pure platforming experience you want more akin to TPL, then Daxter has you covered. TLF also feels a lot closer to TPL in some ways, especially with some of the level design and the eco powers.

Yeah I do really need to go back and give the rest of the games a chance - did they get re-released on PS4 recently? If I ever pick up a PS4 I may just dip back in again!

Jenuall wrote:

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Jenuall wrote:I haven't even bothered to try the later games in the series, that's how much Jak II disappointed me!

You're missing out on some brilliant games. Jak3 has some superb pure platforming mixed in there, and if it's a pure platforming experience you want more akin to TPL, then Daxter has you covered. TLF also feels a lot closer to TPL in some ways, especially with some of the level design and the eco powers.

Yeah I do really need to go back and give the rest of the games a chance - did they get re-released on PS4 recently? If I ever pick up a PS4 I may just dip back in again!

TPL, Jak II, Jak3 and JakX were released as PS2 games on PS4. For Daxter you'd need to play on PSP or Vita, and TLF is PSP, Vita and PS2.