Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER

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DML
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by DML » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:17 pm

Pancake wrote:
DML wrote:
Qikz wrote:I like how I was the one person in the thread once Parksey and Sykes died that mentioned that it was really fishy that everyone who spoke to DML: Kezzer, Sykes and Parksey all ended up dead. I guess I did a really good job of making people not want to listen to me and DML did a great job turning people against me. The way you kept PCCD from believing I was innocent was pretty damn amazing.


He did that all of his own accord. :lol:

I also made sure there was a fair delay between finding out peoples identities and killing them. Kezzer, Parksey, Sykes...none of them died immediately. Besides, we were still filtering off tonnes of info. :twisted:

And those people who thought they were really good at hiding the truth, you obviously weren't. We had an inexperienced pack, I admit I'm dreadful at this game and we picked you off with ease. We never knew anyone's identity for certain bar Parksey I believe.


To be fair, it took you lot ages to pick off any special roles, bar Mocky and Pacman (who gave himself up so that doesn't count).


And Falsey. We were glad to see the back of nonsense that could ruin anything. That was in our best interests as well.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by satriales » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:45 pm

DML wrote:Felt it was risky, I did need to be trusted. I'm glad I didn't as well, we would have lost the game much sooner. Drum, please don't bring back the Bodyguard role in that way.


The way you caught songwriter just didn't quite add up, so I wasn't completely trusting but after so long with no attacks on me I thought you can't be a wolf.
Then once I did finally die and the herd thinned I started to suspect you again but not trying to kill me earlier was the one thing which still didn't make much sense.

It was a good play considering my role, but I don't think I would have suspected it was you if you'd killed me after about 3 days

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:32 pm

satriales wrote:
DML wrote:Felt it was risky, I did need to be trusted. I'm glad I didn't as well, we would have lost the game much sooner. Drum, please don't bring back the Bodyguard role in that way.


The way you caught songwriter just didn't quite add up, so I wasn't completely trusting but after so long with no attacks on me I thought you can't be a wolf.
Then once I did finally die and the herd thinned I started to suspect you again but not trying to kill me earlier was the one thing which still didn't make much sense.

It was a good play considering my role, but I don't think I would have suspected it was you if you'd killed me after about 3 days


You did something really silly by role claiming in the thread. I sent DML a PM saying I knew who the Witch Doctor was in order to protect you, but after I sent it I realised you'd already claimed your role in the thread.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Gently-Parted Ringpiece » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:28 pm

DML wrote:And Falsey. We were glad to see the back of nonsense that could ruin anything. That was in our best interests as well.


yeah strawberry float you too buddy

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by satriales » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:25 pm

Qikz wrote:
satriales wrote:
DML wrote:Felt it was risky, I did need to be trusted. I'm glad I didn't as well, we would have lost the game much sooner. Drum, please don't bring back the Bodyguard role in that way.


The way you caught songwriter just didn't quite add up, so I wasn't completely trusting but after so long with no attacks on me I thought you can't be a wolf.
Then once I did finally die and the herd thinned I started to suspect you again but not trying to kill me earlier was the one thing which still didn't make much sense.

It was a good play considering my role, but I don't think I would have suspected it was you if you'd killed me after about 3 days


You did something really silly by role claiming in the thread. I sent DML a PM saying I knew who the Witch Doctor was in order to protect you, but after I sent it I realised you'd already claimed your role in the thread.


I was considering lying about my role to make it seem like I was immune from wolves or something so that they wouldn't 'waste' another kill on me, but they could still kill two people a night so my name was always going to be one of them.
The witchdoctor plan wouldn't have fooled DML anyway, he'd already sussed that there was no Witchdoctors back in my PM to him at the start of the game.

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DML
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by DML » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:17 am

Qikz wrote:
satriales wrote:
DML wrote:Felt it was risky, I did need to be trusted. I'm glad I didn't as well, we would have lost the game much sooner. Drum, please don't bring back the Bodyguard role in that way.


The way you caught songwriter just didn't quite add up, so I wasn't completely trusting but after so long with no attacks on me I thought you can't be a wolf.
Then once I did finally die and the herd thinned I started to suspect you again but not trying to kill me earlier was the one thing which still didn't make much sense.

It was a good play considering my role, but I don't think I would have suspected it was you if you'd killed me after about 3 days


You did something really silly by role claiming in the thread. I sent DML a PM saying I knew who the Witch Doctor was in order to protect you, but after I sent it I realised you'd already claimed your role in the thread.


I'd said a couple of times in the thread how me and Drum has extensive chats about his next running of AYAW in real life, and how we both hate the Witch Doctor role. Then you came in trying to convince me you knew a Witch Doctor. No dice. :lol:

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:22 am

The thing I don't get is it's not the Witch Doctor that'd broken. It's the mayoral protection.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Shadow » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:30 am

Qikz wrote:The thing I don't get is it's not the Witch Doctor that'd broken. It's the mayoral protection.


You're gonna have to explain that. The mayoral protection is much more nuanced and interesting that the witch doctor. The fact that both sides can make use of it makes it a much deeper mechanic. It also encourages people to run for mayor.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:36 am

Shadow wrote:
Qikz wrote:The thing I don't get is it's not the Witch Doctor that'd broken. It's the mayoral protection.


You're gonna have to explain that. The mayoral protection is much more nuanced and interesting that the witch doctor. The fact that both sides can make use of it makes it a much deeper mechanic. It also encourages people to run for mayor.


The wolves can't make use of mayoral protection, because it doesn't protect against vigilantes. The only protection they have is they can't be wolf killed or lynched which you still get the benefit of.

The reason the mayoral protection is not interesting is there's no strategic thinking about it. If you have someone who comes out with info then they get protected the next day if the kills have already happened. It's almost guarenteed and happened with Pacman this game. The Witch Doctor unless they want to go public can't tell anyone they protected them for sure without revealing their role. The protected person is hidden from the bad guys and they can waste a kill on them.

The protection circle happens as both the witch doctor can protect themselves/one other then they switch with the mayor. Remove mayoral protection and it's impossible. Of course you have the same situation if you remove the WD, but in my opinion it's more interesting to have them as the protection as they're an active player and they can change the game as a good player rather than just a base role which has no possible effect on blocking a wolf kill. All it does is make someone publically protected for a day, then they die the next. If someone is protected by a witch doctor then the wolves have to actively think if they're going to try and attack the same person again, because the WD could save them twice.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Shadow » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:41 am

What if the WD couldn't protect themselves?

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Qikz
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:42 am

Shadow wrote:What if the WD couldn't protect themselves?


Exactly and that's why the Bodyguard style role exists.

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DML
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by DML » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:48 am

I think the Bodyguard can work in smaller games, but in highly orchestrated larger games like this, it just doesn't work well. 24 hours is far too long for everyone to rally round and work out whats been going on, in a normal game of Werewolf that moment may be a few minutes long at best. Its interesting because I thought a role like that would work better, but it really did make our job virtually impossible, basically a roadblock we would inevitably hit that would unite the Villagers.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by PCCD » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:51 am

DML wrote:
Qikz wrote:I like how I was the one person in the thread once Parksey and Sykes died that mentioned that it was really fishy that everyone who spoke to DML: Kezzer, Sykes and Parksey all ended up dead. I guess I did a really good job of making people not want to listen to me and DML did a great job turning people against me. The way you kept PCCD from believing I was innocent was pretty damn amazing.


He did that all of his own accord. :lol:


But on the plus side I can say that I wasn't being manipulated by anyone :datass:

The Holly and Delusi wrote:PENALTY: Blatant lies. Five minutes in the Sin Bin.
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Drumstick » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:32 am

I don't see an incentive for anyone to run for Mayor if you remove the protection element associated with it. Why anyone would want to draw such attention from everyone and put a target on their back?

Anyone?

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 am

Drumstick wrote:I don't see an incentive for anyone to run for Mayor if you remove the protection element associated with it. Why anyone would want to draw such attention from everyone and put a target on their back?

Anyone?


To get someone lynched? If nobody runs for mayor nobody gets lynched. You're painting a huge target on your back already, it's just you survive for one extra day and that's it. :lol:

Also if you're a power role you get someone else to do it for you. Or maybe you go for mayor yourself to play the "so obviously a villager" card like I seemed to pick up this game. The mayoral protection is just simply not interesting, atleast compared to the witch doctor role anyway in terms of strategic use.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by romeo G. Detlev Jr. » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:03 am

Qikz wrote:
Drumstick wrote:I don't see an incentive for anyone to run for Mayor if you remove the protection element associated with it. Why anyone would want to draw such attention from everyone and put a target on their back?

Anyone?


To get someone lynched? If nobody runs for mayor nobody gets lynched. You're painting a huge target on your back already, it's just you survive for one extra day and that's it. :lol:


So how would you see a game beginning if there's no mayoral protection? Here's how I see it...

Day One:

"Anyone running for mayor?"
"Well, no-one has any suspects at this stage, and no-one wants to be the centre of attention, so..."
no mayor

Day Two:

"What did we learn yesterday?"
"Nothing because there was no mayor"
"Well, no-one has any suspects at this stage, and no-one wants to be the centre of attention, so..."
no mayor

(repeat day two)

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:07 am

Dan. wrote:
Qikz wrote:
Drumstick wrote:I don't see an incentive for anyone to run for Mayor if you remove the protection element associated with it. Why anyone would want to draw such attention from everyone and put a target on their back?

Anyone?


To get someone lynched? If nobody runs for mayor nobody gets lynched. You're painting a huge target on your back already, it's just you survive for one extra day and that's it. :lol:


So how would you see a game beginning if there's no mayoral protection? Here's how I see it...

Day One:

"Anyone running for mayor?"
"Well, no-one has any suspects at this stage, and no-one wants to be the centre of attention, so..."
no mayor

Day Two:

"What did we learn yesterday?"
"Nothing because there was no mayor"
"Well, no-one has any suspects at this stage, and no-one wants to be the centre of attention, so..."
no mayor

(repeat day two)


That's not what happens at all. Going for mayor and getting killed means it's very likely that you struck it lucky like Riksilver and if you get killed it opens up leads. Yes, it means oftentimes if you're going for mayor against a wolf you can be killed that day, but there's no rule against the Witch Doctor protecting that person that day. The wolves won't know for sure if they're going to be protected so they actually have to take a risk to target them which could lead them in to wasting a kill chance.

That's the thing, it's much more strategical. All the mayoral protection adds is it adds one night of invincibility and a) that's not really fair on the bad guys who are already out numbered and b) it means you have one less special role in play who could actually make a difference depending on whether they were good or bad at the role.

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by romeo G. Detlev Jr. » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:11 am

Qikz wrote:That's the thing, it's much more strategical. All the mayoral protection adds is it adds one night of invincibility and a) that's not really fair on the bad guys who are already out numbered and b) it means you have one less special role in play who could actually make a difference depending on whether they were good or bad at the role.


You are advocating removing a strategic element of the game and simplifying one of the central roles and you're arguing it makes it more strategical, but how? You're not actually offering an explanation as to how the game would be better without mayoral protection. As Shadow pointed out it's a shared power which can be used by both sides. Plenty of mayors were wolves during this game, DML even got in office towards the end of the game. Your point a) is redundant as it only gives them one less villager to target but there's plenty of other villagers to go for, and it gives them the option to manipulate the village into thinking a wolf has become mayor in order to gain the protection, therefore it makes the game more strategic. Your point b) doesn't make sense, could you please explain?

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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Qikz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:28 am

Dan. wrote:
Qikz wrote:That's the thing, it's much more strategical. All the mayoral protection adds is it adds one night of invincibility and a) that's not really fair on the bad guys who are already out numbered and b) it means you have one less special role in play who could actually make a difference depending on whether they were good or bad at the role.


You are advocating removing a strategic element of the game and simplifying one of the central roles and you're arguing it makes it more strategical, but how? You're not actually offering an explanation as to how the game would be better without mayoral protection. As Shadow pointed out it's a shared power which can be used by both sides. Plenty of mayors were wolves during this game, DML even got in office towards the end of the game. Your point a) is redundant as it only gives them one less villager to target but there's plenty of other villagers to go for, and it gives them the option to manipulate the village into thinking a wolf has become mayor in order to gain the protection, therefore it makes the game more strategic. Your point b) doesn't make sense, could you please explain?


Ok, so right now whoever gets mayor gets protection against wolf kills. The mayor is only protected from wolf kills and no other night role kills, correct? The mayor for example can still be shot by a vigilante or killed by a psycopath (atleast that's how the rules of mayoral protection usually work). So, the protection of the mayor role is only technically available to the villager side as the wolf side can't be attacked by themselves.

What it means is that whoever, on the village side gets mayor is completely invunrable and unkillable by the enemy team. All someone needs to do to get that power is to just get voted in, which when you have information about someone or you have a power role like Pacman did isn't exactly difficult to do. All this means is Pacman is removed entirely from the wolves/bad guys kill lists for that night and they just kill them instantly the next day (or atleast in this game as there was no witch doctor to have a protection circle going). Now that's fair enough, but is it really strategical in any real sense of the word? Not really. It's just a get out of jail free card for one night and they'll either do something useful or not before they die.

How this changes by having a witchdoctor in play and no mayoral protection is it makes things a lot more interesting. Suddenly Pacman isn't completely removed from the wolves kill pool. The wolves have to take a very difficult decision on whether or not they're going to attack Pacman the night he's mayor, because there's a chance that the witch doctor will save him. So do they attack him? They could think that the Witch Doctor protecting Pacman is an inevitability and not actually attack him, but that inevitability is unknown to anyone but the Witch Doctor and who he's in contact with.

There could be a gamble that the wolves, thinking that Pacman will be protected will go for someone else and the Witch Doctor may not even need to protect him at all. There's also another situation where the wolves may think that Pacman won't be protected for the previous reasons stated, attack him then waste a kill. It makes the wolves think more about who they're going to kill and when. It removes the element from the game of the wolves being entirely helpless for one night to kill an important player as they have no option to even try to do so. No wolf is going to attack a protected mayor and it means it's very, very, very unlikely for the wolves to ever miss a kill unless they attack a bodyguard. That to me isn't strategic, having choices and the ability to turn the tide of the game with a well placed protection is.

Last edited by Qikz on Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gently-Parted Ringpiece
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PostRe: Are You A Werewolf? - GAME OVER
by Gently-Parted Ringpiece » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:28 am

The mayor is invuln to all attacks.

The role works because anyone can use it. Pro and anti village.


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