'Are You A Werewolf? 2024 - Gamechangers - The Votes Are In

Thanks for hosting DML, agree with others that the village had no meaningful way to counter corrupt mayors and the 4 day term killed what could have been a great 3 way endgame but it was still an enjoyable game up until that point!

Tomous wrote:

Herdanos wrote:

Tomous wrote:

sawyerpip wrote:To be fair I can see why the wolves were a bit wary of you.

"I've lynched one of you, and I'm about to shoot another of you, but I'm on your side I promise!"

Exactly

I think Sprouty and Orange were still a little worried right to the end

When it turned out there were Red Wolves I became paranoid you'd had us

So did they!

As a team though we deduced Songwriter was likely the other one and he was the person I shot (so I'm 4 from 4 on wolf kills people ) with Orange on the final night.

I knew you were something too so I attacked you last night. You were blood stain last night.

Can’t believe no one had attacked you before!!!

Songwriter wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Herdanos wrote:

Tomous wrote:

sawyerpip wrote:To be fair I can see why the wolves were a bit wary of you.

"I've lynched one of you, and I'm about to shoot another of you, but I'm on your side I promise!"

Exactly

I think Sprouty and Orange were still a little worried right to the end

When it turned out there were Red Wolves I became paranoid you'd had us

So did they!

As a team though we deduced Songwriter was likely the other one and he was the person I shot (so I'm 4 from 4 on wolf kills people ) with Orange on the final night.

I knew you were something too so I attacked you last night. You were blood stain last night.

Can’t believe no one had attacked you before!!!

Yep, we thought you would. My HP was our biggest concern in the final night!

I'd actually spent a lot of time protected from night kills in this game thanks to the mayor/lynching rule.

Pancake wrote:Reading the post mortems from wolf team and I think actually you have to conclude that village and red wolf teams played pretty well. We killed two wolves and worked out that OR was another, we essentially forced blue wolf team to out themselves and take a 50/50 punt on a gamechanger, different gamechanger and we get a different outcome. Can't dispute that blue wolf team then made the most of the hand they were given but the whole game hinged on that gamble.

There were many more ways the game could have gone that ended with a village win or a red wolf win, and pretty much only one way that we could have won. We had to figure that out and every gamble was calculated, so I feel like it was deserved in that respect, but yes we won against the odds!

I think the village could have done a lot better at many points too though. When the crossbow gamechanger got unveiled I was in a proper panic as I was certain the seer would gain control of the crossbow. We figured out vermi getting the crossbow might be best for us and that turned out very true!

Tomous wrote:

Songwriter wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Herdanos wrote:

Tomous wrote:

sawyerpip wrote:To be fair I can see why the wolves were a bit wary of you.

"I've lynched one of you, and I'm about to shoot another of you, but I'm on your side I promise!"

Exactly

I think Sprouty and Orange were still a little worried right to the end

When it turned out there were Red Wolves I became paranoid you'd had us

So did they!

As a team though we deduced Songwriter was likely the other one and he was the person I shot (so I'm 4 from 4 on wolf kills people ) with Orange on the final night.

I knew you were something too so I attacked you last night. You were blood stain last night.

Can’t believe no one had attacked you before!!!

Yep, we thought you would. My HP was our biggest concern in the final night!

I'd actually spent a lot of time protected from night kills in this game thanks to the mayor/lynching rule.

We originally planned to keep you to the final two (thought you might miss a crucial vote), but made the switch yesterday, pegging you as potential Red Wolf. Your post about being kept alive until you became inactive after the weekend suddenly looked suspicious on reveal of the red wolves. I'm not sure that it made any difference in the end.

We obviously had no idea who Apollo had hit and had to factor it in to our planning. If your shot had killed Tomous, the game would have finished with a Blue Wolf win, during my absurdly named Spectacular, robbing Tomous of his joint victory.

Well you didn't directly lie to me., you weren't the alpha. And I still trusted you more than Sprouty.

I guess it's like trusting Starmer over Rishi, you're still going to get strawberry floated, but it feels a bit more pleasant.

OrangeRKN wrote:

Pancake wrote:Reading the post mortems from wolf team and I think actually you have to conclude that village and red wolf teams played pretty well. We killed two wolves and worked out that OR was another, we essentially forced blue wolf team to out themselves and take a 50/50 punt on a gamechanger, different gamechanger and we get a different outcome. Can't dispute that blue wolf team then made the most of the hand they were given but the whole game hinged on that gamble.

There were many more ways the game could have gone that ended with a village win or a red wolf win, and pretty much only one way that we could have won. We had to figure that out and every gamble was calculated, so I feel like it was deserved in that respect, but yes we won against the odds!

I think the village could have done a lot better at many points too though. When the crossbow gamechanger got unveiled I was in a proper panic as I was certain the seer would gain control of the crossbow. We figured out vermi getting the crossbow might be best for us and that turned out very true!

Yeh, I didn't mean to take anything away from you in terms of the win, you played it well. I just think there is a temptation to laugh at those stupid villagers and their stupid decisions but we all know how hard it is as a villager, so I think it's worth noting that we actually did a decent job this time.

OrangeRKN wrote:. We figured out vermi getting the crossbow might be best for us and that turned out very true!

Yes he shot me twice for wanting to kill the Alpha.

Good win by the wolves. Near the start my gut was telling me Sprouty was a wolf but I never had any reason to push it and it soon got forgotten.

OrangeRKN was going for me very early on but he had legit reasons where I was actually being suspicious so I thought he was just a villager paying attention. Where as Ob just made up a reason to lynch me day 1 so he was straight on my wolf list

I knew one of the three green villagers was a wrongun but couldn't work out which. I think the protection circle just caused problems!! I did believe Dan's story about Tomous but I was already out of the game at that point.

aayl1 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:. We figured out vermi getting the crossbow might be best for us and that turned out very true!

Yes he shot me twice for wanting to kill the Alpha.

He keeps mentioning my use of the Apollo gif, probably to deflect from this absolute shocker of a play.

OrangeRKN wrote:

Pancake wrote:Reading the post mortems from wolf team and I think actually you have to conclude that village and red wolf teams played pretty well. We killed two wolves and worked out that OR was another, we essentially forced blue wolf team to out themselves and take a 50/50 punt on a gamechanger, different gamechanger and we get a different outcome. Can't dispute that blue wolf team then made the most of the hand they were given but the whole game hinged on that gamble.

There were many more ways the game could have gone that ended with a village win or a red wolf win, and pretty much only one way that we could have won. We had to figure that out and every gamble was calculated, so I feel like it was deserved in that respect, but yes we won against the odds!

I think the village could have done a lot better at many points too though. When the crossbow gamechanger got unveiled I was in a proper panic as I was certain the seer would gain control of the crossbow. We figured out vermi getting the crossbow might be best for us and that turned out very true!

Key village mishaps from my perspective:

1. Using random kills and shots so early in the game. I get why it happens, it's fun and having weapons makes you feel at risk. But us wolves wanted the village to use these early, whilst the odds of survival were best for us.

2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

3. A little bit of village switching off at times. One example would be that my Mayorship was uncontested, yet several players had me pegged as a potential wolf lean. At the time I put myself up, my priority was getting the unlynchable status. This was key to our original plan, as the town couldn't lynch either of us blue wolves, so we could see a potential route to the win, even being known at 15 players. But everyone was so focussed on figuring out who lied in the previous vote & I was able to get in on a platform which I knew would be popular.

3b. Part of the problem here, in my eyes, was that some of the more experienced players tend to jump in at the start to try gain control & in this game, that meant taking their turn as Mayor before it was optimum. There were one or two calls for somebody else to stand against me, but those calling had already used their turn.

Having said all if that, I think the village also made many good moves. It felt like we were on top for the start, but then very quickly it started to feel like people were honing in on us.

Wolf mistakes:

1. Trying to fix the SuperChris vote was a big mistake for us. A complete unforced error. It forced us to completely rethink our plans. Fantastic that we made it work, but we could have avoided the heat.

2. We threw Dan under the bus to give us some cover, but never really capitalised that, though we benefited from gaining Orange his unlynchable ex Mayor status, which was vital in the end. Truth is there was little to lose, as the town made it clear he was strongest suspect at the time.

3. Asking Dan to out Tomous in the thread! Tomous ended up being essential to our win, but we made the decision to out him, which could have cost us the game. Thankfully for us, the village didn't pay much attention to this.

Having said that... deserved Blue Wolf (+1) win!

Thanks for running a very fun game DML.

Congrats to ORKN, Sprouty and Tomous for surviving! Well played wolves in general.

Kicking myself for not seeing the Red Wolf twist, that was pretty cool.

Was I hit for any reason other than just randomness?

It was a great game DML, it was fun taking part and continuing to read after my death.

Sprouty wrote:2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

The wolves just kill the most vocal active villagers anyway - the issue is the only way you can win as a village team is being active and trying to root out wolves by using lists like you're mentioning. It's how we managed to kill both DarkRula and Dan. It gives the village a goal to work towards as you pick out the people most people are suspicious of and lynch them rather than just randomly killing whoever each day. I'm not sure what else you seriously expect a village side to do in one of these games outside of just sit and do nothing until you've been left alive for being inactive to suddenly become active when you've already lost. If you're going to sit inactive don't bother playing.

Also Pedz they probably killed you because there was two days in a row where everyone did everything they could to swing a lynch vote away from you. It likely gave you away. I wish I'd have just let Drumstick win now and we could've lynched Tomous instead.

What ended up leaking from the Seer circle then? As far I am aware, I had three chats going on:

1) Myself, Zilnad - protected and attacked on Day One, so I outed myself to him (which was very fortunate as i deliberately picked a player i thought would be hit early) and Vermi

2) Myself, Pedz and Quiz

3) Qikz and Zilnad (Qikz wanted to protect Pedz so we kept him secret; didn't bring Vermi in as he'd gone to pieces a bit and was acting irrationally).

I was aware that Tomous and Ob Blov has been seered, but wasn't in contact with them, bar a non committal reply to a sexy/cheeky PM from OB.

From what I remember, Qikz was being the go between the original Seer group of me, him and Pedz and hadnt mentioned us to Tomous.

For me, a key early moment was giving the crossbow to Vermi (not a mistake in one way, as he was a good guy) but then the responsibility of this making him fall to pieces. I was vouching against using three bolts so quickly, given he had several layers of protection ahead of him (I'd protected him by this point, he had the Mayorship and the prisoner protection to use up). We knew something was you with the kills by this point, due to the first two days, so it was too hasty and panicky to fire three off on the very first use.

I enjoyed this game, but due to the inevitably chaotic nature of it all, it was hard to keep you. I also went abroad on Day three, which made it really hard to keep track of the game. I wasn't quite as effective in the circles as I perhaps should have been (not helped by the fact I couldn't charge my phone on the first night I was away).

Pedz wrote:Was I hit for any reason other than just randomness?

We certainly didn't know you were the seer! But we were avoiding people we didn't think were the seer - everyone who ran for mayor day one for example, for the same reason they were discounted as wolves. So you were on our (very long) shortlist of potential seers.

Our main tactic early game was to avoid killing players who are often targeted early for being perceived as "experienced" players, as we thought us wolves fell into that same category and killing off others would raise the question of why we hadn't been targeted.

It was hard to find the right balance in that as it also meant leaving players we really wanted to kill alive. Quite early on we knocked Nun down to 1HP as we anticipated we might want to kill him quickly at some point, and I think we still left him alive too long! He ended up being one of the crucial known wounded that allowed us to pull off the bloodbath on Saturday night.

As a perpetual villager the change up to this game actually made me more engaged that usual. The restricted mayor should have given villagers more chance to get involved (and if Qikz hadn’t blown giving everyone powers )

I do think there needed some tweaking in balance (unlynchable wolves goes against the very nature of the game, removing the one advantage villagers have - numbers and democracy) but overall I felt it was fun, novel and unique and I’m really glad to have been part of it.

FatDaz wrote:As a perpetual villager the change up to this game actually made me more engaged that usual. The restricted mayor should have given villagers more chance to get involved (and if Qikz hadn’t blown giving everyone powers )

I do think there needed some tweaking in balance (unlynchable wolves goes against the very nature of the game, removing the one advantage villagers have - numbers and democracy) but overall I felt it was fun, novel and unique and I’m really glad to have been part of it.

If I'd have known picking A would make everyone a Seer I wouldn't have done it. I thought it was going to give everyone https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... e=Amnesiac this role.

I should've given everyone P which was protector, but the issue was I thought it was Pollster meaning Voterigger so I thought I'd screw us over doing it by removing the only way to lynch wolves.

Fwiw Qikz, we had all agreed almost immediately that we would be honest about whatever role we got

Qikz wrote:

Sprouty wrote:2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

The wolves just kill the most vocal active villagers anyway - the issue is the only way you can win as a village team is being active and trying to root out wolves by using lists like you're mentioning. It's how we managed to kill both DarkRula and Dan. It gives the village a goal to work towards as you pick out the people most people are suspicious of and lynch them rather than just randomly killing whoever each day. I'm not sure what else you seriously expect a village side to do in one of these games outside of just sit and do nothing until you've been left alive for being inactive to suddenly become active when you've already lost. If you're going to sit inactive don't bother playing.

Also Pedz they probably killed you because there was two days in a row where everyone did everything they could to swing a lynch vote away from you. It likely gave you away. I wish I'd have just let Drumstick win now and we could've lynched Tomous instead.

Agreed, to call those lists a village mistake is definitely wrong, they may "help" wolves but they help village much more.