'Are You A Werewolf? 2024 - Gamechangers - The Votes Are In

OrangeRKN wrote:Fwiw Qikz, we had all agreed almost immediately that we would be honest about whatever role we got

Yeah, but it's not what role you had it was what happened after that. It wasn't just a role claim and ah-ha that persons a liar they're a wolf.

The point was nobody would know what roles the other people had, so nobody would've been certain that every single player had the same role. Which meant moving forward we could bluff in the thread to throw off the wolves by actually planning and working on something. DML posting the role PM in the thread completely stopped everything I had planned for after that day and it also made me look like the asshole who spoiled everyones fun. Sadly it just turned out the role I gave everyone was a seer which meant in this game it became useless. I thought it was going to be a more interesting role we could work with. Amnesiac wouldn't have helped the wolves at all, but it could have helped us. I don't see how anyone could possibly say that logically choosing A would give everyone the role Seer.

RetroCora wrote:

aayl1 wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:. We figured out vermi getting the crossbow might be best for us and that turned out very true!

Yes he shot me twice for wanting to kill the Alpha.

He keeps mentioning my use of the Apollo gif, probably to deflect from this absolute shocker of a play.

Despite all my bad plays, at least i didn't shoot myself.

Pancake wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Sprouty wrote:2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

The wolves just kill the most vocal active villagers anyway - the issue is the only way you can win as a village team is being active and trying to root out wolves by using lists like you're mentioning. It's how we managed to kill both DarkRula and Dan. It gives the village a goal to work towards as you pick out the people most people are suspicious of and lynch them rather than just randomly killing whoever each day. I'm not sure what else you seriously expect a village side to do in one of these games outside of just sit and do nothing until you've been left alive for being inactive to suddenly become active when you've already lost. If you're going to sit inactive don't bother playing.

Also Pedz they probably killed you because there was two days in a row where everyone did everything they could to swing a lynch vote away from you. It likely gave you away. I wish I'd have just let Drumstick win now and we could've lynched Tomous instead.

Agreed, to call those lists a village mistake is definitely wrong, they may "help" wolves but they help village much more.

Obviously, the village need to talk through our decisions and leanings, but I think the format of labelling every player is flawed. Perhaps name top 3 suspects, or something along those lines. I dont think the village gain by knowing that I'm your strong village lean, but that's juicy information for me as a wolf.

Qikz wrote:

FatDaz wrote:As a perpetual villager the change up to this game actually made me more engaged that usual. The restricted mayor should have given villagers more chance to get involved (and if Qikz hadn’t blown giving everyone powers )

I do think there needed some tweaking in balance (unlynchable wolves goes against the very nature of the game, removing the one advantage villagers have - numbers and democracy) but overall I felt it was fun, novel and unique and I’m really glad to have been part of it.

If I'd have known picking A would make everyone a Seer I wouldn't have done it. I thought it was going to give everyone https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... e=Amnesiac this role.

If it was that role, were you not worried a load of players would switch to the wolf team?

Qikz wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:Fwiw Qikz, we had all agreed almost immediately that we would be honest about whatever role we got

Yeah, but it's not what role you had it was what happened after that. It wasn't just a role claim and ah-ha that persons a liar they're a wolf.

The point was nobody would know what roles the other people had, so nobody would've been certain that every single player had the same role. Which meant moving forward we could bluff in the thread to throw off the wolves by actually planning and working on something. DML posting the role PM in the thread completely stopped everything I had planned for after that day and it also made me look like the asshole who spoiled everyones fun. Sadly it just turned out the role I gave everyone was a seer which meant in this game it became useless. I thought it was going to be a more interesting role we could work with. Amnesiac wouldn't have helped the wolves at all, but it could have helped us. I don't see how anyone could possibly say that logically choosing A would give everyone the role Seer.

The problem was it created a major game conflict that had to be addressed as it broke seering. Also I was talking directly to the wolves, they werent falling for it. Why lie?

We targeted Devlin on Night Zero because at that point he was the only fully inactive player left. We wanted to give the village as little as possible to go on so wanted to make it look like it was just an inactive cull and picked for us.

When he lived, we thought we might have gotten super lucky, and hit a Witch Doctor, so we went for him again on Night One. After that we kinda figured out the 2HP thing.

We wanted to avoid Purples (because of OR and I, of course), SONM folk (because of Rula) and anyone who'd attracted any heat in the thread. Initially we thought we'd try to avoid players historically considered to be good at these games, but literally everyone involved this time around has played a blinder at one point or another so when it became apparent we'd not rack up kills as quickly as we thought, we ditched that strategy.

The other wolves might have, but I had no clue why the fur appeared when it did.

We thought jiggles' bakery play might have been an audacious bluff for someone with an actual power role. We went for Zilnad a second time twice on Night 4 as we'd figured out someone (we now know it was Parksey) protected him earlier on, so thought perhaps he'd protected himself.

We aimed a shot at Cora fairly early on out of concern he was a backup seer who'd be activated if Gamechanger 12 was enacted. So we wanted to have the option to one-shot kill him if ever needed. We didn't expect what followed. You might have spotted that none of us ever backed a ballot that advocated GC12 (I think) - we got this one wrong didn't we?

We got very, very lucky with some of the random shots made either by DML or the potshots made by armed villagers. But Pedz was our kill (both hits), not a stray bullet. Satriales' shock move was a dream, partly because it meant the bullets wouldn't be a threat later, partly because it led to him being lynched!

We discussed the merits of both approaches as a team, but Rula's decision to trigger the Apollo gif was ultimately his, and obviously it played out extremely well for us. Well done that man.

Qikz' day seven plan wasn't as bad as some made out, I think he just explained the logic badly: he was going to tell everyone he had assigned a random number of each role, which might give some badduns cause to believe there was space to hide (because if their lie knocks the count out of alignment, it's hard to trace it to just them as someone else could also be lying) but if anyone did that, he'd know immediately they were sus, because he knows exactly what role everyone had gotten (and going for the same power for everyone is the only way to set it up so he knows this, because the roles were to be randomly assigned). That was my understanding, anyway (and I genuinely did think that engaging with the plan might take the heat off of me, as I knew I'd be able to be more active that day!) We never told DML, but he was correct that the plan probably wouldn't have worked, but that's only because we planned to oblige completely with Qikz' subsequent instructions, even if it involved one of us sacrificing another to build trust, as we'd calculated that while losing another wolf (at that point) would make the endgame mathematically harder, it wouldn't reduce our nightly kill attempts. In hindsight DML could have just saved himself time by sending everyone the same PM (no need to re-write for each recipient) and letting the plan play out. Think it had a neutral effect on the game overall though: as much as it meant the village couldn't enact any plan, it also meant we couldn't use the plan as a chance to build trust.
However having said all that:

Qikz wrote:I don't see how anyone could possibly say that logically choosing A would give everyone the role Seer.

I do think this was a miscalculation, as I don't think anyone else was expecting it to be quite as straightforward. Personally I was surprised one of the Vs was even Vigilante!

All of my claimed periods of IRL busyness were true, but I perhaps might have been more active in the thread had I not had to check the wolf chat also. I didn't think I'd played terribly as a "villager", but you can never really be sure unless you're authentic, I guess. I thought including Rula on my list might have earned me some trust; I also thought voting early for a platform that might have lynched OR would have taken some heat off of him! Neither really played out.

Qikz wrote:Also RKN Dan having 2 HP wasn't the only reason, a few people called him out in the thread before I even shot him including me. He was a pretty obvious wolf, the thing that tipped me off for certain and why I shot him was when he got annoyed at me and said that I was only saying he was a wolf because of the fact he was playing exactly like how he was when he was a Grinch in the other game

I can see how referring to a previous game where I was indeed a wrong-'un, and agreeing I was playing in the same manner, was probably an error.
But I also think a lot of the people who'd "called" me as a wolf did so without really giving any reasons? I can't really labour the point too strongly - you were all correct, after all! - but it seemed to me that it was more because everyone was saying it, and I continued to survive, that people felt more convinced. (OR is right - the 2HP thing was entirely neither here nor there - we were as in the dark as the rest of you whether or not we'd previously taken an Apollo bullet.) I would note that despite every man and his dog having pegged me as a wolf, it was only when the alpha ran for mayor and handed a bullet to a wolf ally did you actually get me!

On that note: Tomous you played a spectacular game. I hope as a fellow Vampbuster that Qikz' Van Helsing remark made you smile as much as it did me. Watching the thread play out has been a delight though it's been tough to keep it to myself (so I didn't, I've just been endlessly PM-ing DML, ha). When the Chris/Preezy vote was a tie I thought our game was up; when Sprouty's candidacy suddenly swung with both OR and Tom on the ballot I knew they must have linked up. (Then the red wolves appeared and I panicked that Tom was a red wolf playing a blinder!)

I also think the red wolves played really well - it's a tough role and while I can't speak for the others I never really considered the idea that there might be another faction in play. I personally didn't spot the increased kill attempts at the weekends. To make it so far into the game is pretty impressive. Songwriter your point about targeting those who were vocalising their suspicions around your inactivity was interesting - as part of the reason we left you alive was because others suspected you!

I think the Laws and Gamechangers have been a terrific twist and made the game really fascinating. I also wonder if the village might have not factored in the point that it was DML as the host - the same DML who has often bemoaned seer circles and their power. If I had to guess right from the outset I'd have said the game mechanics would have been designed to reward bold plays more often than not - but I didn't say this! (Also he called the game The Gamechangers - of course the Gamechangers were going to be overpowered!) Well done to anyone who suspected me - you were right! - and much love to my brethren, both toothplayer and soothsayer.

DML wrote:Your winners of AYAW 2024 are...

ORANGERKN, SPROUTY and TOMOUS!

In the OP:

DML wrote:2. Once you have died, you cannot win. There is no victory in death for a human. However, if you are a wolf and you die, you can win if the Pack win at the end.

DarkRula and I would like the record amended

Sprouty wrote:

Pancake wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Sprouty wrote:2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

The wolves just kill the most vocal active villagers anyway - the issue is the only way you can win as a village team is being active and trying to root out wolves by using lists like you're mentioning. It's how we managed to kill both DarkRula and Dan. It gives the village a goal to work towards as you pick out the people most people are suspicious of and lynch them rather than just randomly killing whoever each day. I'm not sure what else you seriously expect a village side to do in one of these games outside of just sit and do nothing until you've been left alive for being inactive to suddenly become active when you've already lost. If you're going to sit inactive don't bother playing.

Also Pedz they probably killed you because there was two days in a row where everyone did everything they could to swing a lynch vote away from you. It likely gave you away. I wish I'd have just let Drumstick win now and we could've lynched Tomous instead.

Agreed, to call those lists a village mistake is definitely wrong, they may "help" wolves but they help village much more.

Obviously, the village need to talk through our decisions and leanings, but I think the format of labelling every player is flawed. Perhaps name top 3 suspects, or something along those lines. I dont think the village gain by knowing that I'm your strong village lean, but that's juicy information for me as a wolf.

Nah, disagree on that. I've been village a lot, I think this is best village have ever done at honing on possible targets. It was super useful for me to see what, e.g. Nun and Qikz felt about other players.

Sprouty wrote:

Pancake wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Sprouty wrote:2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

The wolves just kill the most vocal active villagers anyway - the issue is the only way you can win as a village team is being active and trying to root out wolves by using lists like you're mentioning. It's how we managed to kill both DarkRula and Dan. It gives the village a goal to work towards as you pick out the people most people are suspicious of and lynch them rather than just randomly killing whoever each day. I'm not sure what else you seriously expect a village side to do in one of these games outside of just sit and do nothing until you've been left alive for being inactive to suddenly become active when you've already lost. If you're going to sit inactive don't bother playing.

Also Pedz they probably killed you because there was two days in a row where everyone did everything they could to swing a lynch vote away from you. It likely gave you away. I wish I'd have just let Drumstick win now and we could've lynched Tomous instead.

Agreed, to call those lists a village mistake is definitely wrong, they may "help" wolves but they help village much more.

Obviously, the village need to talk through our decisions and leanings, but I think the format of labelling every player is flawed. Perhaps name top 3 suspects, or something along those lines. I dont think the village gain by knowing that I'm your strong village lean, but that's juicy information for me as a wolf.

You guys didn't win because we shared too much in the thread though, not did we share too much in the thread. You won thanks to how you used the game mechanics and rules in play to your advantage. Also helped along by a guy who killed 2 of your own wolves winning himself ultimate trust in the thread after also seering green. If that were a lie and he voted for you in the final day rather than a villager you would've lost.

Sprouty wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Songwriter wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Herdanos wrote:

Tomous wrote:

sawyerpip wrote:To be fair I can see why the wolves were a bit wary of you.

"I've lynched one of you, and I'm about to shoot another of you, but I'm on your side I promise!"

Exactly

I think Sprouty and Orange were still a little worried right to the end

When it turned out there were Red Wolves I became paranoid you'd had us

So did they!

As a team though we deduced Songwriter was likely the other one and he was the person I shot (so I'm 4 from 4 on wolf kills people ) with Orange on the final night.

I knew you were something too so I attacked you last night. You were blood stain last night.

Can’t believe no one had attacked you before!!!

Yep, we thought you would. My HP was our biggest concern in the final night!

I'd actually spent a lot of time protected from night kills in this game thanks to the mayor/lynching rule.

We originally planned to keep you to the final two (thought you might miss a crucial vote), but made the switch yesterday, pegging you as potential Red Wolf. Your post about being kept alive until you became inactive after the weekend suddenly looked suspicious on reveal of the red wolves. I'm not sure that it made any difference in the end.

It would have. As I would have been active to win. And able to kill 2 of you.

DML did a post about Red Wolves weekends only. Irony, I never lied about my whereabouts.

I feel as Red Wolf and only being a wolf during weekends. We felt like villagers most of the time and we were trying to survive until we could be wolfs.

I'd also like the record to show that I survived til the last day without any erratic, chaotic or dipship behaviour.

Also, where is the dead player thread?

Songwriter wrote:

Sprouty wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Songwriter wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Herdanos wrote:

Tomous wrote:

sawyerpip wrote:To be fair I can see why the wolves were a bit wary of you.

"I've lynched one of you, and I'm about to shoot another of you, but I'm on your side I promise!"

Exactly

I think Sprouty and Orange were still a little worried right to the end

When it turned out there were Red Wolves I became paranoid you'd had us

So did they!

As a team though we deduced Songwriter was likely the other one and he was the person I shot (so I'm 4 from 4 on wolf kills people ) with Orange on the final night.

I knew you were something too so I attacked you last night. You were blood stain last night.

Can’t believe no one had attacked you before!!!

Yep, we thought you would. My HP was our biggest concern in the final night!

I'd actually spent a lot of time protected from night kills in this game thanks to the mayor/lynching rule.

We originally planned to keep you to the final two (thought you might miss a crucial vote), but made the switch yesterday, pegging you as potential Red Wolf. Your post about being kept alive until you became inactive after the weekend suddenly looked suspicious on reveal of the red wolves. I'm not sure that it made any difference in the end.

It would have. As I would have been active to win. And able to kill 2 of you.

DML did a post about Red Wolves weekends only. Irony, I never lied about my whereabouts.

I feel as Red Wolf and only being a wolf during weekends. We felt like villagers most of the time and we were trying to survive until we could be wolfs.

How many attacks did you get per day over the weekend? If we left you and Curls (original plan), & assuming we killed you in the final vote, we'd have the same end result, surely? Either way, we started talking about swapping you at 1pm yesterday, so it was very, very tight!

Qikz wrote:

Sprouty wrote:

Pancake wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Sprouty wrote:2. Players listing every player and how they think each leans. This is gold dust for wolves! It's literally telling us who might keep us in the game and who our big threats are, allowing us to kill our most vocal critics. These contributed to the idea of a big gamble, because it was clear I was not trusted enough to make it to the end as lone wolf.

The wolves just kill the most vocal active villagers anyway - the issue is the only way you can win as a village team is being active and trying to root out wolves by using lists like you're mentioning. It's how we managed to kill both DarkRula and Dan. It gives the village a goal to work towards as you pick out the people most people are suspicious of and lynch them rather than just randomly killing whoever each day. I'm not sure what else you seriously expect a village side to do in one of these games outside of just sit and do nothing until you've been left alive for being inactive to suddenly become active when you've already lost. If you're going to sit inactive don't bother playing.

Also Pedz they probably killed you because there was two days in a row where everyone did everything they could to swing a lynch vote away from you. It likely gave you away. I wish I'd have just let Drumstick win now and we could've lynched Tomous instead.

Agreed, to call those lists a village mistake is definitely wrong, they may "help" wolves but they help village much more.

Obviously, the village need to talk through our decisions and leanings, but I think the format of labelling every player is flawed. Perhaps name top 3 suspects, or something along those lines. I dont think the village gain by knowing that I'm your strong village lean, but that's juicy information for me as a wolf.

You guys didn't win because we shared too much in the thread though, not did we share too much in the thread. You won thanks to how you used the game mechanics and rules in play to your advantage. Also helped along by a guy who killed 2 of your own wolves winning himself ultimate trust in the thread after also seering green. If that were a lie and he voted for you in the final day rather than a villager you would've lost.

I can't say how the game would have gone without it, and if those lists hold value for players, then I can't stop it in future games and wont seek to. But I definitely used them to help direct my game as a wolf. Recommended kills based on them, knew how to manipulate lynchings, changed my strategy ideas. Appreciate it's a balance & maybe labeling it as mistake is harsh.

Sprouty wrote:

Songwriter wrote:

Sprouty wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Songwriter wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Herdanos wrote:

Tomous wrote:

sawyerpip wrote:To be fair I can see why the wolves were a bit wary of you.

"I've lynched one of you, and I'm about to shoot another of you, but I'm on your side I promise!"

Exactly

I think Sprouty and Orange were still a little worried right to the end

When it turned out there were Red Wolves I became paranoid you'd had us

So did they!

As a team though we deduced Songwriter was likely the other one and he was the person I shot (so I'm 4 from 4 on wolf kills people ) with Orange on the final night.

I knew you were something too so I attacked you last night. You were blood stain last night.

Can’t believe no one had attacked you before!!!

Yep, we thought you would. My HP was our biggest concern in the final night!

I'd actually spent a lot of time protected from night kills in this game thanks to the mayor/lynching rule.

We originally planned to keep you to the final two (thought you might miss a crucial vote), but made the switch yesterday, pegging you as potential Red Wolf. Your post about being kept alive until you became inactive after the weekend suddenly looked suspicious on reveal of the red wolves. I'm not sure that it made any difference in the end.

It would have. As I would have been active to win. And able to kill 2 of you.

DML did a post about Red Wolves weekends only. Irony, I never lied about my whereabouts.

I feel as Red Wolf and only being a wolf during weekends. We felt like villagers most of the time and we were trying to survive until we could be wolfs.

How many attacks did you get per day over the weekend? If we left you and Curls (original plan), & assuming we killed you in the final vote, we'd have the same end result, surely? Either way, we started talking about swapping you at 1pm yesterday, so it was very, very tight!

3 with 2 RW
2 with 1 RW

Thanks for running the game DML, it was great fun and clearly took a huge effort to create and host.

Congrats to the scumbag wolves!

DML are you going to tell us the unreaveled laws?

Yes I need to know what Law 7 was.

Thanks for hosting, DML!

Really enjoyed myself the first couple of days, then unfortunately kept getting caught up at work and with other things IRL, which was not good for my activity.

Had a go at a renaissance with my failed bid for leadership. Really wish I'd given it a better shot, as we'd have shared a range of mystery powers and hopefully more chaotic fun.

I do think with two baddy factions you need to give the villagers more power to identify them, as it screws over the ability to scrutinise posts when the wolves are also partly in the dark.

I still believe in Mayor Sprouty .

It was incredibly entertaining to watch. Thank you DML and everyone who played!