Are you ready?

Anything to do with games at all.
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Ho-Ho-Ho-tek
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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Ho-Ho-Ho-tek » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:56 pm

You're probably right but it will diminish the streaming stuff in comparison I reckon.

Also, I don't want this to turn into a mini console war but MS have amassed a pretty sizeable team who's sole purpose is back compat and not only making it a possibility but using methods to increase resolution, presentation and frame rates. They've been doing that now for 3 years, I can see them bumping up Xbox One games again the same way, not sure Sony would bother doing anything than running the original at original res etc. (which is understandable)

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by NickSCFC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:00 pm

Photek wrote:You're probably right but it will diminish the streaming stuff in comparison I reckon.

Also, I don't want this to turn into a mini console war but MS have amassed a pretty sizeable team who's sole purpose is back compat and not only making it a possibility but using methods to increase resolution, presentation and frame rates. They've been doing that now for 3 years, I can see them bumping up Xbox One games again the same way, not sure Sony would bother doing anything than running the original at original res etc. (which is understandable)


Getting XB360 games to run on XB1 is different though, it requires and emulation and appears to be done on a game to game basis, it's important to them as there as 80m (depending on how many replaced due to RROD) XB360 owners they desperately want to lock into the ecosystem, so it's a great move.

The problem comes next generation where there could potentially be 120m PS4 owners and 60m XBO owners locked into their respective ecosystems (subscriptions, downloads etc). This wasn't a big deal at the start of this generation but next-gen it will be a huge factor.

Last edited by NickSCFC on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eat it Harvey
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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Eat it Harvey » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:10 pm

Hime wrote:That being the case means upgrading is analogous to the phone upgrade in that you get something a bit prettier wth nicer graphics, more memory and some new bells and whistles. I'm good with that.

I think that is exactly the type of model Microsoft are trying to move towards. In the future there might even be some "forwards" compatibility, where newer games will run (At a lower spec) on older systems, but the newer systems will look/run much better. Essentially they'll be PC games where developers have sliders they can adjust for 2-3 different systems. One of the plus sides being that when someone "upgrades" to a newer system, all their existing games will see an increase in fidelity and quality. It's a potentially interesting turn that MS could take a few years down the line.

NickSCFC wrote:
Photek wrote:You're probably right but it will diminish the streaming stuff in comparison I reckon.

Also, I don't want this to turn into a mini console war but MS have amassed a pretty sizeable team who's sole purpose is back compat and not only making it a possibility but using methods to increase resolution, presentation and frame rates. They've been doing that now for 3 years, I can see them bumping up Xbox One games again the same way, not sure Sony would bother doing anything than running the original at original res etc. (which is understandable)


Getting XB360 games to run on XB1 is different though, it requires and emulation and appears to be done on a game to game basis, it's important to them as there as 80m (depending on how many replaced due to RROD) XB360 owners they desperately want to lock into the ecosystem, so it's a great move.

The problem comes next generation where there could potentially be 120m PS4 owners and 60m XBO owners locked into their respective ecosystems (subscriptions, downloads etc). This wasn't a big deal at the start of this generation but next-gen it will be a huge factor.


PS3 will remain a tricky one because of Cell but I can see it being done. PC emulators are getting to the point where PS3 is doing quite well (I haven't been following it too closely though), but it would depend on Sony crafting their own internal emulator. PS1 and PS2 emulation should be an absolute doddle for PS5 as well, simply because they already have the emulators in place for those systems, they just need to tweak them for new hardware.

PS4 wouldn't even be emulation as it's still running on mostly the same tech, just at higher clock speeds, memory amounts etc. So the amount of work there would in theory be less.

EDIT: I get the impression that 360 BC on the One depends entirely on what advances they make with their emulation layer. Where they focus on a specific game they want to add, or a problem or feature of the emulation that needs worked on. They then implement that change, then test a load of games to see what now works. Might explain why some of the additions can seem a little scattershot.

Last edited by Eat it Harvey on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Are you ready?
by NickSCFC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Cheeky Devlin wrote:
Hime wrote:That being the case means upgrading is analogous to the phone upgrade in that you get something a bit prettier wth nicer graphics, more memory and some new bells and whistles. I'm good with that.

I think that is exactly the type of model Microsoft are trying to move towards. In the future there might even be some "forwards" compatibility, where newer games will run (At a lower spec) on older systems, but the newer systems will look/run much better. Essentially they'll be PC games where developers have sliders they can adjust for 2-3 different systems. One of the plus sides being that when someone "upgrades" to a newer system, all their existing games will see an increase in fidelity and quality. It's a potentially interesting turn that MS could take a few years down the line.

NickSCFC wrote:
Photek wrote:You're probably right but it will diminish the streaming stuff in comparison I reckon.

Also, I don't want this to turn into a mini console war but MS have amassed a pretty sizeable team who's sole purpose is back compat and not only making it a possibility but using methods to increase resolution, presentation and frame rates. They've been doing that now for 3 years, I can see them bumping up Xbox One games again the same way, not sure Sony would bother doing anything than running the original at original res etc. (which is understandable)


Getting XB360 games to run on XB1 is different though, it requires and emulation and appears to be done on a game to game basis, it's important to them as there as 80m (depending on how many replaced due to RROD) XB360 owners they desperately want to lock into the ecosystem, so it's a great move.

The problem comes next generation where there could potentially be 120m PS4 owners and 60m XBO owners locked into their respective ecosystems (subscriptions, downloads etc). This wasn't a big deal at the start of this generation but next-gen it will be a huge factor.


PS3 will remain a tricky one because of Cell but I can see it being done. PC emulators are getting to the point where PS3 is doing quite well (I haven't been following it too closely though), but it would depend on Sony crafting their own internal emulator. PS1 and PS2 emulation should be an absolute doddle for PS5 as well, simply because they already have the emulators in place for those systems, they just need to tweak them for new hardware.

PS4 wouldn't even be emulation as it's still running on mostly the same tech, just at higher clock speeds, memory amounts etc. So the amount of work there would in theory be less.


Yes, looking at the supposed Mark Cerny patents getting PS5 to play PS4 games will work the same way that PS4 Pro plays PS4 games.

Sticking with X86 is just like buying a PC in 2020 and playing the old games you've bought since 2013 on it.

Last edited by NickSCFC on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hyperion
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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Hyperion » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm

Hey, are you ready for this?

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by jawafour » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:29 pm

Hyperion wrote:Hey, are you ready for this?


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PostRe: Are you ready?
by HSH28 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:58 pm

NickSCFC wrote:Getting XB360 games to run on XB1 is different though, it requires and emulation and appears to be done on a game to game basis, it's important to them as there as 80m (depending on how many replaced due to RROD) XB360 owners they desperately want to lock into the ecosystem, so it's a great move.


Its not emulation in a traditional sense, its actually running the 360 OS in a VM and the 360 games run on that. It does need some tweaking on a game by game basis, but its still runs on the same VM.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Floex » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:19 pm

Brerlappin wrote:I honestly feel like this gen has barely even begun. Like the PS4 is only getting great games recently, the first couple of years of its life i could honestly count on one hand the number of games I bought for it. And as for the Xbone well.. has it done anything memorable other than let you play 360 games? Like what exclusives has it eve managed to amass, Halo 5 and Sunset overdrive? strawberry floating lol. One thing is for certain, if a PS5 and Xbone2 come out in the next year I definitely wont be buying them for a long ass time. Compared to the 10 year lifespans of PS3/360 this gen has been bitterly disappointing.


It’s funny, there has been some fantastic titles but compared to last gen their catalogues feel so bare in comparison. Retro gaming was treated with so much respect last gen, it felt like an event when a classic title was brought to a system. Now? Barely a whimper. Indies seemed to be big deal, they still kind of are but much less so. I do appreciate Microsoft trying to rectify this but their exclusive output has been so, so bad that I will not be picking up an Xbox this gen.

I guess with rising costs, games aren’t being produced as quick.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Hans Bubby » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:24 pm

I'm not ready, don't have the disposable income as I did before the babs came along but will I shite be left out. PS5 go on then, Xbone X2 The New Mutant is a no because it simply doesn't have the exclusives and what very little it does have game-wise I can play on my PC.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by bear » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:37 pm

I think 2019 is slightly too soon.

Beyond the power of the consoles themselves I'm just not convinced that the industry itself is ready to deliver a next gen experience.

The video itself highlights my point as its almost entirely focused on the fidelity of the experience. I know thats partly because Digital Foundry is practically built around the idea of quantifying game fidelity but I think it highlights that too much of the industry is still focused on graphics even though we are firmly in an era where the laws of diminishing returns has kicked in. We need ever bigger leaps in graphics processing power in order to deliver noticeable improvements.

Its almost ten years since Left 4 Dead came out (no seriously) and almost four since Shadow of Mordor but how many studios/publishers have taken inspiration from those games and created systems based big budget games? Their sequels and Vermintide if we want to be generous. Maybe State of Decay 2 will fall into that category as well when it shows up. Simply saying that the next gen will have more CPU grunt doesn't automatically mean that we are going to get more games with randomlly generated elements.

Casting back to 2008/9 there was arguably more being invested into control innovation than there is now. We had the DS, the Wii remote, rise of touchscreen gaming and Kinect and PS Move were starting to be rumoured or shown off. in 2018 we have three platforms largely all built around the same set of controls the PS2 launched with. VR has motion control but traditional console gaming hasn't moved on much when it comes to controls.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Hime » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:49 pm

Brerlappin wrote:I honestly feel like this gen has barely even begun. Like the PS4 is only getting great games recently, the first couple of years of its life i could honestly count on one hand the number of games I bought for it. And as for the Xbone well.. has it done anything memorable other than let you play 360 games? Like what exclusives has it eve managed to amass, Halo 5 and Sunset overdrive? strawberry floating lol. One thing is for certain, if a PS5 and Xbone2 come out in the next year I definitely wont be buying them for a long ass time. Compared to the 10 year lifespans of PS3/360 this gen has been bitterly disappointing.

Although I've really enjoyed this generation I do know what you mean. I like prettier versions of games I've posted before but it doesn't feel like there is the big ambitious new games to look forward too like we had with Mass Effect, Gears of War, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, etc. Not all of these turned out to be good but you had the big build up and drip feed information that was a lot of fun. I can only think of a handful of games that I even know are coming out in the future.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by HSH28 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:55 pm

Hime wrote:Although I've really enjoyed this generation I do know what you mean. I like prettier versions of games I've posted before but it doesn't feel like there is the big ambitious new games to look forward too like we had with Mass Effect, Gears of War, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, etc. Not all of these turned out to be good but you had the big build up and drip feed information that was a lot of fun. I can only think of a handful of games that I even know are coming out in the future.


Ok so we've had...

Witcher 3, Resident Evil 7, Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn, Prey, Doom, Titanfall 2, Neir Automata, The Last Guardian, No Man's Sky, Overwatch, Hitman. You could really make the list as long as you want. Oh yeah and VR, we've had VR this generation, so that pretty much settles it.

Basically there have been a tonne of new top quality AAA huge games, a tonne of remasters of top quality AAA old games, a whole host of amazing indie games, a whole host of amazing retro games and then a whole new area of gaming that didn't even exist last generation.

There are still plenty of new games to come this gen, can't see it being anything other than the best generation of gaming there has ever been.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Hyperion » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:16 pm

jawafour wrote:
Hyperion wrote:Hey, are you ready for this?


Wrong song jawa

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Christmas CrackErrkal » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:11 am

That's the song I would have gone with, not seen that film in ages, need to watch it again.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Dual » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:19 am

And yet no one picks up on my Elton John reference?

This forum.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:25 am

Dual wrote:And yet no one picks up on my Elton John reference?

This forum.


Coming up with references like that is your Sacrifice to the forum.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:32 am

I am not personally ready for a new generation of consoles, but I’d be interested to see what new machines in 2020 could do, even if I don’t jump in straight away.

I’d expect full backwards compatibility with the current gen consoles (for both MS and Sony), with MS also including BC back to their original Xbox.

The era of digital “ownership” is going to be important going forward when full BC is implemented, are people going to jump between the two manufacturers and lose all of the games that they have access to? I think MS have realised that and that’s why they will continue to offer their Gamepass service, people can jump across and have access to games (for a fee!) and not have to immediately spend hundreds on purchasing them.

Power wise, I am not sure that they will be massively more powerful than what we already have. Probably a similar power difference between PS4/Pro and Xbone/XboneX. I am not too up on the latest developments on PCs though, so maybe they can squeeze a lot more into the consoles of the 2020s.

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Ho-Ho-Ho-tek
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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Ho-Ho-Ho-tek » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:53 am

I'm in no rush either tbh. Until VR becomes less ludicrously over priced and less dorky looking the main thing a shiny new console will add will be shinier graphics and steadier frame rates. I may jump to Xbox 2 X unless something absolutely blows my mind.

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 am

Photek wrote:I'm in no rush either tbh. Until VR becomes less ludicrously over priced and less dorky looking the main thing a shiny new console will add will be shinier graphics and steadier frame rates. I may jump to Xbox 2 X unless something absolutely blows my mind.


I look forward to quoting this post in November 2019 when you are excitedly posting about your Xbox Two pre-order. ;)

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PostRe: Are you ready?
by Ho-Ho-Ho-tek » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 am

Moggy wrote:
Photek wrote:I'm in no rush either tbh. Until VR becomes less ludicrously over priced and less dorky looking the main thing a shiny new console will add will be shinier graphics and steadier frame rates. I may jump to Xbox 2 X unless something absolutely blows my mind.


I look forward to quoting this post in November 2019 when you are excitedly posting about your Xbox Two pre-order. ;)

I'll live stream on periscope! :slol:

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