Are you religious?

I don't believe in god but on the other hand I'm not sure the theories science has at the moment stack up. I'm sure science is the way forward and I'm willing to be proved wrong but I just have a hunch that something will come along and science will have to go into another age of discovery again.

The way most people act is that Creationism OR Science MUST be the only answers. What about other creation stories? The Hindu creation story for example, the epic of gilgamesh or even even Zeus defeating the titans. In fact, Ive never seen one atheist try to disprove the existance of the Greek Gods, only the christian god. Voodoo has its own creation story, The Zulu believe in Unkulunkulu, Shintoism believes their gods speared the land to create japan, Taoism believes in Pangu, who birthed the universe from an egg, Midgard formed by the valient wars of Odin and Ve, The inuit trickster raven and so forth. What about them? Does evolution disprove Unkulunkulu, father of the Zulu, or Odin?

The biblical creation story is actually contradictory, as Chapter 1 differs from chapter 2 which is the creation or morals. They are both slightly off. Chapter 1 for example states that man and woman, 'Mankind' came together. Chapter 2 states man came before woman: Hardly a concrete story. From the first centuries of the church they have preached a staunch non-literalist view of the creation story, especially the Jews (Maimonides in particular. Yeah, I read too much)

What am I saying? Creationists follow a contradictory and incorrect text. Evolutionists use the biblical creation story to prove God doesnt exist. My point: There is no proof god exists but in faith, evil people corrupt religion for their own ends and atheists try to use an imcomplete story to prove a point. Both sides are wrong. Both sides are right.

What we need to do is adopt humanism as the central driving force behind humanity and stop blaming all the evils of the world on God/Odin/Megatron and start blaming ourselves. As JFK said: 'These are manmade problems and thus man can solve them" In the end all we have is each other. Speaking of each other im off down the Pub with my atheist and agnostic friends to talk about football, video games and Johns new Girlfriend.

Goodnight.

Carlos wrote:The way most people act is that Creationism OR Science MUST be the only answers. What about other creation stories? The Hindu creation story for example, the epic of gilgamesh or even even Zeus defeating the titans. In fact, Ive never seen one atheist try to disprove the existance of the Greek Gods, only the christian god. Voodoo has its own creation story, The Zulu believe in Unkulunkulu, Shintoism believes their gods speared the land to create japan, Taoism believes in Pangu, who birthed the universe from an egg, Midgard formed by the valient wars of Odin and Ve, The inuit trickster raven and so forth. What about them? Does evolution disprove Unkulunkulu, father of the Zulu, or Odin? .

That you believe that paragraph deserves both a bastard-laughy and a facepalm speaks volumes of how little you understand of the situation.

My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

I do pity you if this is all you can see in life. I do genuinely pity that you're not more open to possibilities.

You're agreat guy denny, But your post there really ... Bullshit in my opinion mate.

Mini E wrote:

Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

I do pity you if this is all you can see in life. I do genuinely pity that you're not more open to possibilities.

You're agreat guy denny, But your post there really ... Bullshit in my opinion mate.

Mini E wrote:

Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

I do pity you if this is all you can see in life. I do genuinely pity that you're not more open to possibilities.

You're agreat guy denny, But your post there really ... Bullshit in my opinion mate.

I pity you for being so weak of character that you cannot accept the truth of the nature of existence.

Mini E wrote:

Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

I do pity you if this is all you can see in life. I do genuinely pity that you're not more open to possibilities.

You're agreat guy denny, But your post there really ... Bullshit in my opinion mate.

No, that's the true beauty of it.

It's what makes the view from the top of the hill so beautiful. It's what makes having a simple strawberry floating picnic with your girlfriend so brilliant. This is it.

Most religious people have in their head that paradise awaits them upon death. They can't possibly hope to enjoy real life in comparison like I do.

I genuinely pity those who waste their lives waiting for something more.

That is quite a bleak world view there Denster though I suspect its just the way you put it. I think the fact that the human mind even has the ability to comprehend its own existence is quite a comforting thought whether or not its the result of a creative force. If anything the lack of a creator makes us even more unique.

The fact that people can even entertain the idea of a creator baffles me. Who creates the creator? And who created him? And so on. Is it just turtles all the way down?

Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

Spot on.

MCN wrote:The fact that people can even entertain the idea of a creator baffles me. Who creates the creator? And who created him? And so on. Is it just turtles all the way down?

Infinate regress is a funny one and tbh I can't be arsed to answer it today.

Mr Plough wrote:

MCN wrote:The fact that people can even entertain the idea of a creator baffles me. Who creates the creator? And who created him? And so on. Is it just turtles all the way down?

Infinate regress is a funny one and tbh I can't be arsed to answer it today.

Is that because, y'know, no one can?

I get quite offended when I'm called 'weak', 'foolish' or 'worthy of pity'. Why? Because I happen to believe that there is more than this?

MCN and Co. I bet you laugh at guys who cry, yeah? Or take a teddy bear away from a child because the dependence makes him weak... The idea that after I die then... Nothing is, quite frankly, upsetting. If believing that there is more makes me weak, then well... strawberry float you. If I wanna snuggle my homo hating, lobster fearing, magician of a God, then I will.

Then, when he finally comes down from his La-Z-Boy armchair in the sky to whisk us off the greatest party ever, I'll wave...

Skarjo wrote:

Mr Plough wrote:

MCN wrote:The fact that people can even entertain the idea of a creator baffles me. Who creates the creator? And who created him? And so on. Is it just turtles all the way down?

Infinate regress is a funny one and tbh I can't be arsed to answer it today.

Is that because, y'know, no one can?

No because it mainly involves going with a model of God which is on the whole utterly retarded and impossible to engage in discussion with. Its basically a retreat behind mystery and I can't be arsed to drag an annoying part of my degree course into this disscussion especially since i'll have to drag some books out to properly explain it.

EDIT: What I will say actually is that many arguments against God (of which there are actually quite few but as stated the onus is not on the Atheist to prove gods existence so there really is no need for many) are very dependent on what God you're working with. for example a Pabtheistic God would be immune to the infinite regress argument as God is essentially the Universe.

Igor wrote:I get quite offended when I'm called 'weak', 'foolish' or 'worthy of pity'. Why? Because I happen to believe that there is more than this?

MCN and Co. I bet you laugh at guys who cry, yeah?

No.

Or take a teddy bear away from a child because the dependence makes him weak...

No. That guy's a douche.

The idea that after I die then... Nothing is, quite frankly, upsetting. If believing that there is more makes me weak, then well... strawberry float you. If I wanna snuggle my homo hating, lobster fearing, magician of a God, then I will.

Then, when he finally comes down from his La-Z-Boy armchair in the sky to whisk us off the greatest party ever, I'll wave...

Yup, laugh it off. Just so you know, and this is a genuine call, you do know that according to His rulebook, Cal, Hexx and Gario will be condemned to hell for eternity, right? And that's for one of the more well-known trespasses.

I believe that being surrounded by a world as beautiful as this and missing out because nothing can compare to the beauty of heaven makes you weak.

Pitifully, dangerously weak.

Mr Plough wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mr Plough wrote:

MCN wrote:The fact that people can even entertain the idea of a creator baffles me. Who creates the creator? And who created him? And so on. Is it just turtles all the way down?

Infinate regress is a funny one and tbh I can't be arsed to answer it today.

Is that because, y'know, no one can?

No because it mainly involves going with a model of God which is on the whole utterly retarded and impossible to engage in discussion with. Its basically a retreat behind mystery and I can't be arsed to drag an annoying part of my degree course into this disscussion especially since i'll have to drag some books out to properly explain it.

I'm genuinely intrigued. Would a few links suffice?

Skarjo wrote:

Mr Plough wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mr Plough wrote:

MCN wrote:The fact that people can even entertain the idea of a creator baffles me. Who creates the creator? And who created him? And so on. Is it just turtles all the way down?

Infinate regress is a funny one and tbh I can't be arsed to answer it today.

Is that because, y'know, no one can?

No because it mainly involves going with a model of God which is on the whole utterly retarded and impossible to engage in discussion with. Its basically a retreat behind mystery and I can't be arsed to drag an annoying part of my degree course into this disscussion especially since i'll have to drag some books out to properly explain it.

I'm genuinely intrigued. Would a few links suffice?

To be honest I need to refresh my memory a bit on it but the basic notion is that God is wholly simple. What this means is he is timeless and spaceless. Its solves plenty of issues regarding a God in time but creates loads of different ones. Its quite difficult to get your head around at first but once you get it i'm sure you'll find arguing with it akin to banging your head against a wall. The lovely Stanford encyclopedia should do a good job of explaining it for you http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-simplicity/

EDIT: I have no idea why I described it as lovely

Someone over on another forum I visit has posted this:

The way I see it religion feeds the most basic fear in humans - The Fear of the Unknown. Believers use religion to pacify this fear, whilst Atheists mollify it by denying that anything else exists so there is nothing to fear

The real baddies are the ones that exploit this fear in others to control them

Which I find very difficult to disagree with.

Stig wrote:Someone over on another forum I visit has posted this:

The way I see it religion feeds the most basic fear in humans - The Fear of the Unknown. Believers use religion to pacify this fear, whilst Atheists mollify it by denying that anything else exists so there is nothing to fear

The real baddies are the ones that exploit this fear in others to control them

Which I find very difficult to disagree with.

Quite.