Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!

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HSH28
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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by HSH28 » Tue May 01, 2018 10:00 pm

lex-man wrote:
jawafour wrote:
lex-man wrote:A desktop one would be 200 quid you could get a 1050 which would be 120ish.

I wonder if a graphics card at around £120 is a feasible component for a $200 console? I'm not saying that it wouldn't be but it doesn't seem to leave much left for the rest of the unit.


It should be, you've got to remember it'll cost Atari a lot less because they are much higher up the food chain. I would imagine that it'll cost them less than £30 to include one.


I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the case.

There's a reason AMD are the partner for a lot of these machines and not Nvidia, although Nvidia are still the king when it comes to discrete graphics solutions (as in a separate graphics card) as far as I'm aware they don't really have a CPU/GPU product on a single chip of the kind AMD produce.

I'd imagine what is in this thing will be a tweaked version of AMD's current Ryzen APU product. Think more Nvidia 1030 performance than 1050, basically in power terms. Obviously not being a PC the overhead won't be as much, so basically it should be able to do more than a 1030 powered PC...but those thinking it'll outperform a PS4 are dreaming.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Tue May 01, 2018 11:49 pm

HSH28 wrote:
lex-man wrote:
jawafour wrote:
lex-man wrote:A desktop one would be 200 quid you could get a 1050 which would be 120ish.

I wonder if a graphics card at around £120 is a feasible component for a $200 console? I'm not saying that it wouldn't be but it doesn't seem to leave much left for the rest of the unit.


It should be, you've got to remember it'll cost Atari a lot less because they are much higher up the food chain. I would imagine that it'll cost them less than £30 to include one.


I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the case.

There's a reason AMD are the partner for a lot of these machines and not Nvidia, although Nvidia are still the king when it comes to discrete graphics solutions (as in a separate graphics card) as far as I'm aware they don't really have a CPU/GPU product on a single chip of the kind AMD produce.

I'd imagine what is in this thing will be a tweaked version of AMD's current Ryzen APU product. Think more Nvidia 1030 performance than 1050, basically in power terms. Obviously not being a PC the overhead won't be as much, so basically it should be able to do more than a 1030 powered PC...but those thinking it'll outperform a PS4 are dreaming.


If they're going that low they might as well not bother. The PS4 came out in 2013, 5 years ago, I'm not talking about the pro model but they should be able to match the base version. By the way the PS4 and X box one both use Jaguar architecture not the Zen architecture the Ryzen stuff is based on. AMD use it in their low end stuff, it's basically their answer to the Intel Atom, Celeron stuff.

I was using Nivida stuff as a base line because it typical in PC circles as they are the dominate, the AMD equivalent would be the GTX 560. Also Nvida do make APU's although they use RISC based processors there is one in the Nintendo Switch.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by HSH28 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:35 am

lex-man wrote:If they're going that low they might as well not bother. The PS4 came out in 2013, 5 years ago, I'm not talking about the pro model but they should be able to match the base version. By the way the PS4 and X box one both use Jaguar architecture not the Zen architecture the Ryzen stuff is based on. AMD use it in their low end stuff, it's basically their answer to the Intel Atom, Celeron stuff.


The Jaguar is just old, not baseline any more, its in the PS4 and Xbox because it was what was available when those systems were being designed. The powerful part of the chips in the PS4 and Xbox comes from the custom GPU side of the APU. Sony and MS invested the money to get AMD to produce something that didn't have a commercial analogue in AMDs lineup, what I'm guessing is that Atari don't have that clout and therefore have had to go for something a little more off the peg. Hence the more modern CPU and less powerful GPU parts I'm thinking of.

lex-man wrote:I was using Nivida stuff as a base line because it typical in PC circles as they are the dominate, the AMD equivalent would be the GTX 560. Also Nvida do make APU's although they use RISC based processors there is one in the Nintendo Switch.


I know, but Nvidia seem to have side-lined that range of components for the moment, they don't have a recent equivalent in any product that I know of. The Tegra chip in the Switch is based on old technology.

EDIT - Actually Nvidia do have more modern Tegra style chips, but it seems to be only available built in to cars.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Wed May 02, 2018 8:21 am

At the time the PS4 was released Bulldozer architecture was the best architecture that AMD had, it wasn't used in the PS4. The PS4 pro still uses the low end processor tech. It would have been too costly for Sony to use AMDs best architecture and it wouldn't have improved performance that much.

You may be right that they go for a lower powered system than the original PS4 but I think that would be suicide. That said this system already seems like a terrible idea that's doomed for failure.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Wed May 02, 2018 8:24 am

I signed up to the mail thing to see what the buying insensitive I get is.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by Albear » Wed May 02, 2018 8:34 am

I reckon this is a scam and the system won't ever come out.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Wed May 02, 2018 11:26 am

Albear wrote:I reckon this is a scam and the system won't ever come out.


I don't think it's a scam, mainly because the Ouya came out, it might not come out if the pre order isn't strong enough. Hopefully nobody will lose money on it though.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by NickSCFC » Wed May 02, 2018 12:19 pm

lex-man wrote:
Albear wrote:I reckon this is a scam and the system won't ever come out.


I don't think it's a scam, mainly because the Ouya came out, it might not come out if the pre order isn't strong enough. Hopefully nobody will lose money on it though.


How many did that OUYA thing end up selling anyway? Seemed to be forgotten about very quickly.

Also, 2019 release makes Atari VCS a 9th gen console, mind blown :shock:

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Wed May 02, 2018 12:27 pm

NickSCFC wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Albear wrote:I reckon this is a scam and the system won't ever come out.


I don't think it's a scam, mainly because the Ouya came out, it might not come out if the pre order isn't strong enough. Hopefully nobody will lose money on it though.


How many did that OUYA thing end up selling anyway? Seemed to be forgotten about very quickly.

Also, 2019 release makes Atari VCS a 9th gen console, mind blown :shock:


I would probably put the VCS is the tail end of the 8th gen although I don't really make those decisions.

The OUYA got at least 50,000 sales from the Kickstarter but I doubt it did that well on the market. I remember seeing it on the Game website but it was basically dead by launch.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by HSH28 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:17 pm

lex-man wrote:At the time the PS4 was released Bulldozer architecture was the best architecture that AMD had, it wasn't used in the PS4. The PS4 pro still uses the low end processor tech. It would have been too costly for Sony to use AMDs best architecture and it wouldn't have improved performance that much.

You may be right that they go for a lower powered system than the original PS4 but I think that would be suicide. That said this system already seems like a terrible idea that's doomed for failure.


Of course it was down to cost, but I don't think Bulldozer was ready for production when the consoles were in the design phase.

I'd disagree about the importance of CPU performance as well, its a major limiting factor on the games we are getting this generation.

As far as this system goes, its just hard to make a case for it to compete on any level with the PS4...so why even bother? Its something else, not designed with big AAA productions in mind.

EDIT - You just have to look at the form factor to get an indication of the kind of power it will bring to the table, its a thin machine, which means low power consumption, which means relatively low graphics capabilities. Actually rather than comparing it to the PS4, I think a better comparison would be the Nvidia Shield. I think its likely to be more powerful than that (probably), but along those lines.

Last edited by HSH28 on Wed May 02, 2018 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by Moggy » Wed May 02, 2018 1:22 pm

Ad7 wrote:Why would anyone buy one of these?! :lol:


Dat wood panelling :datass:

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by Peter Crisp » Wed May 02, 2018 1:27 pm

If this isn't designed with AAA games in mind and it will struggle to mach PS4 power meaning any PC games on it will look decidedly average at best who is going to look at this and decide they want it over a cheap PC or console from one of the main 3?

I actually think there's room for a new entrant into the console space and I think a company like Samsung or Panasonic could break into the market but it would be hugely risky and take an awful lot of money in marketing and the machine would have to be better than the competition with a decent selection of exclusives to be a viable offer to consumers.

The age old question arises
Why would I buy this product over what's already on the market?

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by HSH28 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:27 pm

Ad7 wrote:Why would anyone buy one of these?! :lol:


Its a more up market set top box that does 4K HDR streaming. $200 isn't a terrible price for that kind of system.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by Peter Crisp » Wed May 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Moggy wrote:
Ad7 wrote:Why would anyone buy one of these?! :lol:


Dat wood panelling :datass:


Wasn't there a wood cover for the PS3?
I actually think wood is a really nice material for console cases.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by jawafour » Wed May 02, 2018 1:38 pm

Peter Crisp wrote:...who is going to look at this and decide they want it over a cheap PC...

I just don't get this argument and it's repeatedly cropping up. Where can someone buy a new PC that can drive a 4K HDR display for $200? I'm not really digging at you, Peter - more the idea that whenever a new console is launched there is always a call of "get a PC". How much is a "cheap" PC? I doubt that anyone who is looking to buy a PC is gonna choose the VCS instead; or vice versa.

That sounds a bit grumpy :shifty: .

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Wed May 02, 2018 1:58 pm

jawafour wrote:
Peter Crisp wrote:...who is going to look at this and decide they want it over a cheap PC...

I just don't get this argument and it's repeatedly cropping up. Where can someone buy a new PC that can drive a 4K HDR display for $200? I'm not really digging at you, Peter - more the idea that whenever a new console is launched there is always a call of "get a PC". How much is a "cheap" PC? I doubt that anyone who is looking to buy a PC is gonna choose the VCS instead; or vice versa.

That sounds a bit grumpy :shifty: .


If you don't mind a tower you could get one for £250. There's probably cheaper option but I can't be bothered to look around.

https://www.ebuyer.com/788613-zoostorm- ... -7290-3089

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by HSH28 » Wed May 02, 2018 2:02 pm

lex-man wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Peter Crisp wrote:...who is going to look at this and decide they want it over a cheap PC...

I just don't get this argument and it's repeatedly cropping up. Where can someone buy a new PC that can drive a 4K HDR display for $200? I'm not really digging at you, Peter - more the idea that whenever a new console is launched there is always a call of "get a PC". How much is a "cheap" PC? I doubt that anyone who is looking to buy a PC is gonna choose the VCS instead; or vice versa.

That sounds a bit grumpy :shifty: .


If you don't mind a tower you could get one for £250. There's probably cheaper option but I can't be bothered to look around.

https://www.ebuyer.com/788613-zoostorm- ... -7290-3089


But as jawa said, I'm not sure anyone who is interested in a slimline system like the VCS is going to buy a relatively large PC. Even if it was a similar form factor, that machine doesn't have an OS with it.

It's not a reasonable comparison to make.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by lex-man » Wed May 02, 2018 2:03 pm

HSH28 wrote:
lex-man wrote:At the time the PS4 was released Bulldozer architecture was the best architecture that AMD had, it wasn't used in the PS4. The PS4 pro still uses the low end processor tech. It would have been too costly for Sony to use AMDs best architecture and it wouldn't have improved performance that much.

You may be right that they go for a lower powered system than the original PS4 but I think that would be suicide. That said this system already seems like a terrible idea that's doomed for failure.


Of course it was down to cost, but I don't think Bulldozer was ready for production when the consoles were in the design phase.

I'd disagree about the importance of CPU performance as well, its a major limiting factor on the games we are getting this generation.

As far as this system goes, its just hard to make a case for it to compete on any level with the PS4...so why even bother? Its something else, not designed with big AAA productions in mind.

EDIT - You just have to look at the form factor to get an indication of the kind of power it will bring to the table, its a thin machine, which means low power consumption, which means relatively low graphics capabilities. Actually rather than comparing it to the PS4, I think a better comparison would be the Nvidia Shield. I think its likely to be more powerful than that (probably), but along those lines.


AMD always had a better architecture than Jaguar because it was designed for low powered machines. Admittedly the one in the PS4 has 8-cores when AMD has only ever released 4 core pc variants. The Nvida shield has the ability to stream stuff from a full powered PC. As far as we know the VCS doesn't have this use case.

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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by jawafour » Wed May 02, 2018 2:06 pm

lex-man wrote:If you don't mind a tower you could get one for £250. There's probably cheaper option but I can't be bothered to look around.

https://www.ebuyer.com/788613-zoostorm- ... -7290-3089

That's doesn't look bad for the money, lex - although you'd need an operating system, keyboard and mouse to go with it - but it doesn't really change my view that nobody looking at the VCS is gonna buy a PC instead (or vice versa). They're completely different markets.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Atari VCS | Formerly Ataribox | Plays games!
by Peter Crisp » Wed May 02, 2018 2:06 pm

jawafour wrote:
Peter Crisp wrote:...who is going to look at this and decide they want it over a cheap PC...

I just don't get this argument and it's repeatedly cropping up. Where can someone buy a new PC that can drive a 4K HDR display for $200? I'm not really digging at you, Peter - more the idea that whenever a new console is launched there is always a call of "get a PC". How much is a "cheap" PC? I doubt that anyone who is looking to buy a PC is gonna choose the VCS instead; or vice versa.

That sounds a bit grumpy :shifty: .


I'm not sure, I've been out of the PC building game since I built my PC with a Q6600 when that was a relatively new cpu so it's been a while :shifty: .
I was just going by the idea that the PS4 is now almost 5 years old and most likely PC components of that level are now cheap as chips and been massively superseded.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.

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