The Terrorism Discussion Thread

It's becoming quite scary now, there doesn't appear to be a definitive way to defeat ISIS. It's not even like you can cut the head off and then deal with the weeds, there's not even a head to cut off in the first place. Carpet-bombing a city in Syria isn't going to stop a lone wolf from using a regular everyday vehicle to indiscriminantly murder innocent people. What can we do, ban lorries?

I just don't know how any intelligence service can stop things like this, save for having 100% coverage of all global communications, which would be both unrealistic and unwelcome.

Also strawberry float religion, none of this would be happening if religion didn't exist.

Preezy wrote:It's becoming quite scary now, there doesn't appear to be a definitive way to defeat ISIS. It's not even like you can cut the head off and then deal with the weeds, there's not even a head to cut off in the first place. Carpet-bombing a city in Syria isn't going to stop a lone wolf from using a regular everyday vehicle to indiscriminantly murder innocent people. What can we do, ban lorries?

After Orlando, everyone was quick enough to demand the banning of guns. Islamic State have long advocated the use of motor vehicles as legitimate weapons of war against 'soft targets' in civilian populations. Will we now see a call to ban lorries and trucks as they are clearly being weaponised against us?

Preezy wrote:I just don't know how any intelligence service can stop things like this, save for having 100% coverage of all global communications, which would be both unrealistic and unwelcome. Also strawberry float religion, none of this would be happening if religion didn't exist.

Now you're just overstepping the mark.

Also, as I mentioned last night, Sky News covering themselves in glory sh*t, debating how Brexit affects intelligence sharing and how unfit Boris Johnson is, in their view, to be Foreign Secretary, even as it beamed live pictures in from Nice in the background. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/753723089318535169

Cal wrote:

Preezy wrote:After Orlando, everyone was quick enough to demand the banning of guns. Islamic State have long advocated the use of motor vehicles as legitimate weapons of war against 'soft targets' in civilian populations. Will we now see a call to ban lorries and trucks as they are clearly being weaponised against us?

This is not true, they wanted strict gun regulation and removal of the availability of assault rifles. To make a correlation between an instrument solely made to kill (as said by its inventor no less) as apposed to a truck that's made to transport goods if ridiculous, you know it is Cal so stop being selectively ignorant of the facts.

If you believe in democracy, the vast majority of US citizens including gun owners want strict gun regulation and assault rifles to be banned, it was ok to vote out of Europe but apparently the will of the people doesn't matter when it comes to guns in the US eh? This is so upsetting, coming on here and reading you turn this on its head on purpose is rage inducing.

Utter banana splits. What a horrible piece of news to wake up to.

Guys, ignore the narcissist.

If there is no reflection from the mirror they go away.

Photek wrote:

Cal wrote:

Preezy wrote:After Orlando, everyone was quick enough to demand the banning of guns. Islamic State have long advocated the use of motor vehicles as legitimate weapons of war against 'soft targets' in civilian populations. Will we now see a call to ban lorries and trucks as they are clearly being weaponised against us?

This is not true, they wanted strict gun regulation and removal of the availability of assault rifles. To make a correlation between an instrument solely made to kill (as said by its inventor no less) as apposed to a truck that's made to transport goods if ridiculous, you know it is Cal so stop being selectively ignorant of the facts.

If you believe in democracy, the vast majority of US citizens including gun owners want strict gun regulation and assault rifles to be banned, it was ok to vote out of Europe but apparently the will of the people doesn't matter when it comes to guns in the US eh? This is so upsetting, coming on here and reading you turn this on its head on purpose is rage inducing.

Well done for pulling out your rage card so quickly, Photek. Carry on like that and you'll doubtless have me banned from here by the end of the day.

Meanwhile:

Many are linking the attack to a 2014 audio message from an IS spokesman, Mohammed al-Adnani, who urged followers to stage all manner of attacks. "If you can't detonate a bomb or fire a shot, manage by yourself... run them over with your car," he said. Many of France's jihadist killers, starting with Mohammed Merah in Toulouse in 2012, began their journey towards militant Islam as petty criminals. The Nice attacker appears to have followed the same path.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36801763

OnlyShallow wrote:Guys, ignore the narcissist.

If there is no reflection from the mirror they go away.

OS is right, the narcissist is just looking for a reaction. 80+ people are dead, ignore the pricks that try and make it all about themselves.

Eighthours wrote:

Parksey wrote:How would carpet bombing a location thousands of miles away stop someone getting their hands on a truck and driving it towards pedestrians in Nice?

It's harder to be radicalised through the internet and social media by an organisation thousands of miles away, when they've been blown to smithereens?

Although the Internet plays a part, I don't believe these people have been radicalised through the Internet alone.

Eighthours wrote:

Parksey wrote:How would carpet bombing a location thousands of miles away stop someone getting their hands on a truck and driving it towards pedestrians in Nice?

It's harder to be radicalised through the internet and social media by an organisation thousands of miles away, when they've been blown to smithereens?

It's pretty easy to radicalise very large numbers of people by indiscriminately carpet bombing yet more civilians in the middle east.

Cal wrote:

Preezy wrote:I just don't know how any intelligence service can stop things like this, save for having 100% coverage of all global communications, which would be both unrealistic and unwelcome. Also strawberry float religion, none of this would be happening if religion didn't exist.

Now you're just overstepping the mark.

Why? Because I said strawberry float religion? strawberry float that, it's a disease that has retarded our species.

Knoyleo wrote:

Eighthours wrote:

Parksey wrote:How would carpet bombing a location thousands of miles away stop someone getting their hands on a truck and driving it towards pedestrians in Nice?

It's harder to be radicalised through the internet and social media by an organisation thousands of miles away, when they've been blown to smithereens?

It's pretty easy to radicalise very large numbers of people by indiscriminately carpet bombing yet more civilians in the middle east.

Exactly. Ridiculous comment, it's beyond stupid to think such a plan would work.

I know public opinion is dead against foreign intervention post Iraq, but - when are we actually going to do something about this? The world is getting smaller by the day, there's no such thing as a localised issue anymore. A bank collapse in one nation can trigger a worldwide financial crisis, a referendum in another might result in the collapse of a decades-long trading bloc, and conflict in the middle east drives so much of our everyday politics it's unreal. Images of fleeing refugees give our hatestream media the fuel they need for their fire of supposed job-stealers on their way to leapfrog you on the housing ladder. The world watches on as the so-called Islamic State commits utterly incomprehensible atrocities in the middle east and as long as they go unchecked their influence grows. They might not be sending tanks and soldiers into our borders, but while they're still around to wage their war, they wage it in other ways; online they recruit and they radicalise, encouraging locals all over the world to declare their allegiance then commit localised atrocities. The marginalised look on and see formerly powerful nations, more in fear of upsetting their own comfortable middle-classes than of risking the lives of their own military to potentially save the lives of millions. How much longer can we allow this to go on? Yes it will be expensive - in terms of money, in terms of livelihood, in terms of the lives of citizens from our nation. It'll be even more expensive when you consider that we so-called "powerful" and "civilized" nations will need to stay in place even after the conflict is "won" so as to ensure that the ideals of democracy, liberty, freedom, tolerance and security are allowed to properly take hold, and that their young people are educated so as to understand, value and defend such morals. But what would be more expensive: to continue down our current path and allow this insidious hatred to continue to infect us in ways we cannot control? I think we have to cut the head off this strawberry floating snake once and for all. This is just utterly terrible news and the worst part of it all is that it doesn't make me feel shocked or saddened or devastated because I'm numb. We see it all the time and it's always utterly despicable but it has become the norm. It will only be when it's on our shores and one of my loved ones has been taken by one of these brutal, barbaric murderers, that I will truly be shocked and hurt and devastated. And I have no doubt that while we pursue our current path, that day will come. strawberry floating horrifying, we have to act.

Knoyleo wrote:

Eighthours wrote:

Parksey wrote:How would carpet bombing a location thousands of miles away stop someone getting their hands on a truck and driving it towards pedestrians in Nice?

It's harder to be radicalised through the internet and social media by an organisation thousands of miles away, when they've been blown to smithereens?

It's pretty easy to radicalise very large numbers of people by indiscriminately carpet bombing yet more civilians in the middle east.

That is also true. Do you have any solutions?

Eighthours wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:

Eighthours wrote:

Parksey wrote:How would carpet bombing a location thousands of miles away stop someone getting their hands on a truck and driving it towards pedestrians in Nice?

It's harder to be radicalised through the internet and social media by an organisation thousands of miles away, when they've been blown to smithereens?

It's pretty easy to radicalise very large numbers of people by indiscriminately carpet bombing yet more civilians in the middle east.

That is also true. Do you have any solutions?

Boots on the ground.

The problem is we, as a society are not safe.

It'd be incredibly easy to kill people.

I could probably stab 3 people in the office right now with a bread knife they keep in the kitchen before being stopped. I could leave the gas on at home at blow up a small group of houses. I could have just swerved on the motorway today (or crossed lanes into ongoing traffic on the A road) and killed several/injured dozens.

I've no idea how you go about protecting from a suicidal lone wolf style attack - I'm not even sure you can.
Prevention means stopping the radicalization - but in the modern age of internet that's seems impossible too.

Preezy wrote:

Cal wrote:

Preezy wrote:I just don't know how any intelligence service can stop things like this, save for having 100% coverage of all global communications, which would be both unrealistic and unwelcome. Also strawberry float religion, none of this would be happening if religion didn't exist.

Now you're just overstepping the mark.

Why? Because I said strawberry float religion? strawberry float that, it's a disease that has retarded our species.

I was being ironic, Preezy - sorry that wasn't clear. Of course you weren't overstepping the mark. Sadly, not enough people ever step close enough the mark in the first place. Dan has posted a powerful message above - that's interesting and refreshing to see. We need people to wake up - time to stop pretending we can somehow just wish this evil away with #hashtags, candlelit vigils and hugs and feels. Whatever this evil is, it shows no sign of stopping and it will strike again. Kind words won't stop it. Peace, love and understanding won't stop it. Holding hands won't stop it.

It's not divisive to identify the very thing creating division and existential terror in our previously safe and secure cultures. Don't we first have to name the problem to solve the problem?

Aliens? I'm guessing it's aliens.

A lot of wars have been fought against ideological extremists on their home territory on the grounds of knocking back a terrorist threat. By and large they don't end well. The US saw 58,000 dead soldiers and one of the longest periods of political and economic instability in living memory as a direct result of their intervention in Vietnam. Fighting in Afghanistan helped lead to the fall of the Soviet Union. Tony Blair is called a war criminal for what he sanctioned in Iraq. Carpet bombing Syria is only radicalising more and more muslim youths.

I don't have a solution, but boots on the ground doesn't work - smarter men than us have tried to make it work and made a complete banana split of it.

Dan. wrote:I know public opinion is dead against foreign intervention post Iraq, but - when are we actually going to do something about this? The world is getting smaller by the day, there's no such thing as a localised issue anymore. A bank collapse in one nation can trigger a worldwide financial crisis, a referendum in another might result in the collapse of a decades-long trading bloc, and conflict in the middle east drives so much of our everyday politics it's unreal. Images of fleeing refugees give our hatestream media the fuel they need for their fire of supposed job-stealers on their way to leapfrog you on the housing ladder. The world watches on as the so-called Islamic State commits utterly incomprehensible atrocities in the middle east and as long as they go unchecked their influence grows. They might not be sending tanks and soldiers into our borders, but while they're still around to wage their war, they wage it in other ways; online they recruit and they radicalise, encouraging locals all over the world to declare their allegiance then commit localised atrocities. The marginalised look on and see formerly powerful nations, more in fear of upsetting their own comfortable middle-classes than of risking the lives of their own military to potentially save the lives of millions. How much longer can we allow this to go on? Yes it will be expensive - in terms of money, in terms of livelihood, in terms of the lives of citizens from our nation. It'll be even more expensive when you consider that we so-called "powerful" and "civilized" nations will need to stay in place even after the conflict is "won" so as to ensure that the ideals of democracy, liberty, freedom, tolerance and security are allowed to properly take hold, and that their young people are educated so as to understand, value and defend such morals. But what would be more expensive: to continue down our current path and allow this insidious hatred to continue to infect us in ways we cannot control? I think we have to cut the head off this strawberry floating snake once and for all. This is just utterly terrible news and the worst part of it all is that it doesn't make me feel shocked or saddened or devastated because I'm numb. We see it all the time and it's always utterly despicable but it has become the norm. It will only be when it's on our shores and one of my loved ones has been taken by one of these brutal, barbaric murderers, that I will truly be shocked and hurt and devastated. And I have no doubt that while we pursue our current path, that day will come. strawberry floating horrifying, we have to act.

Post of the year.

Eighthours wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:

Eighthours wrote:

Parksey wrote:How would carpet bombing a location thousands of miles away stop someone getting their hands on a truck and driving it towards pedestrians in Nice?

It's harder to be radicalised through the internet and social media by an organisation thousands of miles away, when they've been blown to smithereens?

It's pretty easy to radicalise very large numbers of people by indiscriminately carpet bombing yet more civilians in the middle east.

That is also true. Do you have any solutions?

Personally? Nothing I would consider a solution, no. But I cannot see a scenario where continuing with the 15 years of failed war on terror we already have, at least in this form, is going to improve the situation.

Better strategies might include putting much more political/diplomatic pressure on states in the middle east, like Saudi, to cut financial ties with IS. They've been making fortunes, and we can't expect to shut them down whilst people are still providing them with financial backing. Of course, nobody wants to sanction Saudi, because they might stop letting us have the oil, but if enough international pressure can be rounded on. Put more pressure on Turkey to get them to better police their borders into Syria, and stop killing the Kurds.

Working with other states in the region to pressure IS can go a hell of a long way to weakening them without having to put even more civilian lives at risk, and return the the situation of western powers versus the arab world, that so many people see things like the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as.

This is a problem we're going to live with for the next lifetime, though, and I really don't think there's anything we can do to bring an end to it in a measurable timeframe. The people who carry out these acts are doing so out of an ideological hatred of western culture, values, and imperialism. Regardless of whether these are frontline IS fighters in Syria, or someone who attends a radical mosque somewhere in California, these desires to carry out violent acts will live on as long as they do. The easiest way to reduce home-grown terrorism, which seems to be the much bigger threat to use in Europe, or in America, will be to create an environment where Muslims aren't pushed into radicalisation. That means tackling racism, refusing to continually tar all muslims with the same brush every time an attack like this happens, stop insisting that Islamic communities should do more to condemn these horrible acts of violence committed by individuals in their name, all so that we can actually integrate as a society. If muslim communities are able to feel a part of the western countries they live in, then where do they find the fuel to radicalise the next generation?

Or we can continue to treat muslim people like second class citizens, and remain puzzled about why there are some who go on to become radical mass murderers.