The Terrorism Discussion Thread

make fists with your toes wrote:How long before a lorry plows down Oxford Street? I'm amazed that the UK hasn't suffered a serious terrorist attack since 7/7, guess we have to put that down to our excellent intelligence services.

Yes, well of course he would know more about extremists than me, Mr Cox. He backs organisations like Hope Not Hate who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful but actually pursue violent and very undemocratic means. And I’m sorry Mr Cox, but it is time people started to take responsibility for what’s happened.

DrPepperMan wrote:

Gandalf wrote:They should take a good look at security, both Polish and German. If this lorry was reported stolen a few days ago, the haulage company couldn't locate the driver, then how come it was able to cross the border into Germany? That should've been red flagged there and then.

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured at, what should be, a joy filled time of the year......

Freedom of movement is to blame. Even worse is the fact that the person who carried this out was known to the police (according to the BBC). Had proper boarder controls been in place this could have been stopped.

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

DrPepperMan wrote:

Gandalf wrote:They should take a good look at security, both Polish and German. If this lorry was reported stolen a few days ago, the haulage company couldn't locate the driver, then how come it was able to cross the border into Germany? That should've been red flagged there and then.

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured at, what should be, a joy filled time of the year......

Freedom of movement is to blame. Even worse is the fact that the person who carried this out was known to the police (according to the BBC). Had proper boarder controls been in place this could have been stopped.

He was known to the police as a petty criminal, not as a terrorist.

Freedom of movement is not to blame unless you think that there is no conceivable way for a terrorist to get hold of a lorry in Germany without crossing borders?

This cowardly idea that border controls should be in place to stop a few terrorism incidents is crazy. Tens (if not hundreds) of millions benefit from open borders but one attack carried out by somebody that crossed a board and suddenly Europe's way of life should change?

DrPepperMan wrote:

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

DrPepperMan wrote:

Gandalf wrote:They should take a good look at security, both Polish and German. If this lorry was reported stolen a few days ago, the haulage company couldn't locate the driver, then how come it was able to cross the border into Germany? That should've been red flagged there and then.

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured at, what should be, a joy filled time of the year......

Freedom of movement is to blame. Even worse is the fact that the person who carried this out was known to the police (according to the BBC). Had proper boarder controls been in place this could have been stopped.

He was known to the police as a petty criminal, not as a terrorist.

Freedom of movement is not to blame unless you think that there is no conceivable way for a terrorist to get hold of a lorry in Germany without crossing borders?

This cowardly idea that border controls should be in place to stop a few terrorism incidents is crazy. Tens (if not hundreds) of millions benefit from open borders but one attack carried out by somebody that crossed a board and suddenly Europe's way of life should change?

Petty Criminal who is a "refugee" alarm bells right there. Also the truck had the dead body of the owner in, which would have been spotted by boarder guards.

Well if we had proper boarders the petty criminal "refugee" wouldn't have crossed the boarder from Poland to Germany.

Open boarders have only been European way of life for a very short time. Even back in 2000 on a school ski trip we needed to cross the boarder from France to Andorra. So the idea that reintroducing boarder controls in Europe isn't crazy, proper boarders exist between plenty of countries which doesn't impede on people's lives.

This is a very difficult day. I, like millions in Germany, am outraged, shocked and deeply saddened by what happened yesterday in Berlin.

Twelve people who were still with us yesterday, who were looking forward to Christmas and had plans for the holiday, are no longer among us. A horrific and incomprehensible act has robbed them of their lives. More than 40 other people are injured, fighting for their lives or their health.

In these moments I think first of them, the dead and injured and their loved ones. I want them to know that the whole country is united in grief with them. We all hope – and many of us are praying – that they find solace and strength, recover and live on after this dreadful blow.

I think of the emergency services, the police, firefighters, doctors and health workers who served their fellow people yesterday evening in the shadow of the Memorial Church and I thank them from my heart for their difficult work.

I think of the investigators. I have great confidence in the men and women who since yesterday evening have been working to piece together this deplorable act. Every detail of what happened will be uncovered and it will be punished as hard as our law demands.

There is a lot we still don’t know with enough certainty about this act but we must assume it was an act of terrorism.

I know that it would be especially hard for us to bear if someone who had asked for refuge and asylum turned out to have done this. It would be particularly sickening for the many Germans who daily work to help refugees and for those who really do need our shelter and are working to integrate into society.

I’m in constant contact with the president, interior minister De Maiziere and Berlin mayor Michael Muller. In 30 minutes the security cabinet will meet and I have invited the relevant ministers and the heads of the security services to report on the situation and the possible consequences that could arise from it and we will meet again when necessary.

I, along with the mayor and interior minister, will - like so many other Berliners - go to the Breitscheidplatz in the afternoon to express our condolences.

Millions of people, me included, are asking themselves this morning - how can we live with the fact that during a carefree stroll in the Christmas market - a place where we celebrate life - a murderer can cause so many deaths. A simple answer to that, I do not have.

I only know that we cannot and do not wish to give all this up – Christmas markets, good times with family and friends outside in our city squares. We do not want to live paralysed by the fear of evil, even if it is hard in these difficult hours. We will find the strength to live life as we in Germany want to live it – free, with one another and open."

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

DrPepperMan wrote:

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

DrPepperMan wrote:

Gandalf wrote:They should take a good look at security, both Polish and German. If this lorry was reported stolen a few days ago, the haulage company couldn't locate the driver, then how come it was able to cross the border into Germany? That should've been red flagged there and then.

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured at, what should be, a joy filled time of the year......

Freedom of movement is to blame. Even worse is the fact that the person who carried this out was known to the police (according to the BBC). Had proper boarder controls been in place this could have been stopped.

He was known to the police as a petty criminal, not as a terrorist.

Freedom of movement is not to blame unless you think that there is no conceivable way for a terrorist to get hold of a lorry in Germany without crossing borders?

This cowardly idea that border controls should be in place to stop a few terrorism incidents is crazy. Tens (if not hundreds) of millions benefit from open borders but one attack carried out by somebody that crossed a board and suddenly Europe's way of life should change?

Petty Criminal who is a "refugee" alarm bells right there. Also the truck had the dead body of the owner in, which would have been spotted by boarder guards.

Well if we had proper boarders the petty criminal "refugee" wouldn't have crossed the boarder from Poland to Germany.

Open boarders have only been European way of life for a very short time. Even back in 2000 on a school ski trip we needed to cross the boarder from France to Andorra. So the idea that reintroducing boarder controls in Europe isn't crazy, proper boarders exist between plenty of countries which doesn't impede on people's lives.

It's spelt "border".

In this very specific case it might have been possible that a border guard might have been able to stop it. Maybe. And in that situation I would imagine that this guy would have simply stolen a truck from inside Germany and not crossed a border. Which would mean the attack would not have been stopped.

On the whole it shows nothing but cowardice to suggest that the best response to an attack is to reinstate border controls all over Europe. And for the vast vast majority of attacks having borders controls in place would do absolutely nothing to stop them.

Rocsleddy wrote:

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

DrPepperMan wrote:

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

DrPepperMan wrote:

Gandalf wrote:They should take a good look at security, both Polish and German. If this lorry was reported stolen a few days ago, the haulage company couldn't locate the driver, then how come it was able to cross the border into Germany? That should've been red flagged there and then.

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured at, what should be, a joy filled time of the year......

Freedom of movement is to blame. Even worse is the fact that the person who carried this out was known to the police (according to the BBC). Had proper boarder controls been in place this could have been stopped.

He was known to the police as a petty criminal, not as a terrorist.

Freedom of movement is not to blame unless you think that there is no conceivable way for a terrorist to get hold of a lorry in Germany without crossing borders?

This cowardly idea that border controls should be in place to stop a few terrorism incidents is crazy. Tens (if not hundreds) of millions benefit from open borders but one attack carried out by somebody that crossed a board and suddenly Europe's way of life should change?

Petty Criminal who is a "refugee" alarm bells right there. Also the truck had the dead body of the owner in, which would have been spotted by boarder guards.

Well if we had proper boarders the petty criminal "refugee" wouldn't have crossed the boarder from Poland to Germany.

Open boarders have only been European way of life for a very short time. Even back in 2000 on a school ski trip we needed to cross the boarder from France to Andorra. So the idea that reintroducing boarder controls in Europe isn't crazy, proper boarders exist between plenty of countries which doesn't impede on people's lives.

It's spelt "border".

In this very specific case it might have been possible that a border guard might have been able to stop it. Maybe. And in that situation I would imagine that this guy would have simply stolen a truck from inside Germany and not crossed a border. Which would mean the attack would not have been stopped.

On the whole it shows nothing but cowardice to suggest that the best response to an attack is to reinstate border controls all over Europe. And for the vast vast majority of attacks having borders controls in place would do absolutely nothing to stop them.

Exactly. It's essentially letting the terrorists win as we'd be changing our current way of life because of a few nutcases.

Like hell some banana split with a truck should mean we cower in fear behind our borders.

BBC News wrote:Terrorism expert Anthony Glees has told the BBC that Mrs Merkel's decision to let in more than a million migrants last year has been "catastrophic" for Germany and the rest of Europe.

We know that a large number of those people did not come from Syria at all and none of them were properly screened. If you simply open the borders you will include a very small number of highly dangerous people. You don't need many people to destabilise the rightful hold the government has on its people.

The migrants in Germany will in the future be able to travel freely through the Schengen passport-free zone, he says.

Why are open borders meant to be European? It's nonsense, the European Union is essentially a state of nations build in a Judaeo-Christian setting. That's why Christmas markets are found everywhere, not just in Germany. So, Frau Merkel did not keep her people safe and she didn't keep us safe either.

Professor Glees says Germans must now overcome their aversion to surveillance by the security services and show that their democracy is a "muscular" democracy.

The Germans are deeply, deeply suspicious, not just of interception as a security device but of their intelligence and security services. You can understand why if you're a history buff, you had Gestapo, the Nazi Third Reich, you had the Stasi, many Germans saying 'we don't want any of that'. But, of course, this isn't about yesterday it's about today and tomorrow.

The only way you can stop these sorts of killers from operating is by knowing beforehand what their plans are and of course by protecting those very obvious signs. There's no more obvious sign than the site that the killer chose last night in Berlin, Germany's capital.

So the Germans need to learn not only to get up to speed with interception and surveillance to give their community the sort of powers we give ours; also the French intelligence community now have and now use to their advantage.

It's 70 years since the end of the Second World War, Germany has got to start showing that its democracy is a muscular democracy.

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:I don't know who Anthony Glees is, but he sounds like a banana split.

captain red dog wrote:

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:I don't know who Anthony Glees is, but he sounds like a banana split.

He's just one of these bloody experts. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of experts!

BID0 wrote:Yes we should leave millions of people to be bombed in Syria because one guy killed people

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:

BID0 wrote:Yes we should leave millions of people to be bombed in Syria because one guy killed people

Don't forget closing all internal European borders as well.

Maybe we should all stay indoors at all times. It might help us be safer.