Brexit Thread 2

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How would you vote if we had to vote again?

Leave
9
6%
Remain
132
94%
 
Total votes: 141
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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 am

Sleighamorph wrote:We're now in a position where the leaders of both the government and the opposition have completely lost control of their parties.


Time to put them both out to pasture and forget the last 2 years ever happened.

Quoting for the new page...

Garth of Christmas Future wrote:









:shock:

It's always nice watching the Brexit Press go into meltdown.

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Chestnut Snowleaves
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Chestnut Snowleaves » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:47 am

The Express should be strawberry floating ashamed of that.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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DML
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by DML » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:58 am

Piers Morgan sputtering his 'But it's da will of the peepol' stuff failing to grasp the reality of the situation made my morning.

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The Cuttcracker Suite
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by The Cuttcracker Suite » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:10 am

Chestnut Snowleaves wrote:The Express should be strawberry floating ashamed of that.

A headline yesterday read "SUFFER PAIN NOW SO WE CAN MAKE BRITAIN GREAT AGAIN"

I don't think they're taking this very well.

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Partridge Iciclebubbles
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:15 am

Chestnut Snowleaves wrote:The Express should be strawberry floating ashamed of that.


It’s almost like they didn’t really believe in Parliamentary sovereignty....

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Partridge Iciclebubbles
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:17 am


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Garth of Christmas Future
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth of Christmas Future » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:53 am


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KK
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by KK » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:04 am

Here’s what the former govener of the Bank of England Mervyn King thinks of this entire situation:

WHEN Tony Blair and Boris Johnson unite in their condemnation of Theresa May’s “deal”, you know something has gone badly wrong.

The withdrawal agreement is less a carefully crafted diplomatic compromise and more the result of incompetence of a high order.

I have friends who are passionate Remainers and others who are passionate Leavers. None of them believe this deal makes any sense.

It is time to think again, and the first step is to reject a deal that is the worst of all worlds.

There have been three episodes in modern history when the British political class let down the rest of the country: In the Thirties, with appeasement; In the Seventies, when the British economy was the “sick man” of Europe and the Government saw its role as managing decline; and now, in the turmoil that has followed the Brexit referendum.

In all three cases, the conventional wisdom of the day was wrong.

In the first two instances, it took a revolution: In 1940, the resignation of the prime minister and his replacement by someone better suited to the role of wartime leader; in the Seventies, a political and intellectual upheaval, and a radical new government capable of changing course.

Both times, the country escaped ruin by the skin of its teeth. Today’s challenge is of a similar order.

Britain is not facing an economic crisis. It is confronting a deep political crisis. Parliament has brought this on the country.

It voted overwhelmingly to hold a referendum. The public were told they would decide. And the rules of the game were clear: Fifty per cent of the vote plus one would settle the matter.

The Prime Minister and the Chancellor at the time said unequivocally Brexit meant leaving Europe’s single market and customs union. This was the Brexit that, after the referendum, both main political parties promised to deliver.

But a majority of members of Parliament were against leaving, and both parties were split down the middle.

For members of the Labour opposition, the opportunity to undermine the Government outweighed their views on the issue at hand, momentous though it was.

A divided governing party was unable to rely on a majority to support any plan to deliver Brexit.

To be sure, no coherent plan has ever been presented.

There are arguments for remaining in the EU and arguments for leaving. But there is no case for giving up the benefits of remaining without obtaining the benefits of leaving.

Yet that is exactly what the Government is now proposing.

It simply beggars belief that a government could be hell-bent on a deal that hands over £39billion, while giving the EU both the right to impose laws on the UK indefinitely and a veto on ending this state of fiefdom.

Preparations for Brexit based on trade under World Trade Organisation terms should have started in 2016, immediately after the referendum, as I said at the time.

Britain needed a fall-back position — it is foolish to negotiate without one — and that was the form it should have taken. An immigration policy for the post-Brexit world could and should have been published in 2016. But there was no such planning.

Instead, the Government pretended that everything could be postponed until an imaginary long-term deal could be negotiated. This was naive at best, and in the event has proven disastrous.

And so Project Fear turned into Project Impossible.

It is incompetence on a monumental scale.

Before the referendum, official economic projections intended to scare the country into voting Remain didn’t succeed. Based on flimsy and arbitrary assumptions, they were subsequently proved wrong. The same strategy has resurfaced.

It saddens me to see the Bank of England unnecessarily drawn into this project.

The Bank’s latest worst-case scenario shows the cost of leaving without a deal exceeding ten per cent of GDP.

Two factors are responsible for the size of this effect: First, the assertion that productivity will fall because of lower trade; second, the assumption that disruption at borders — queues of lorries and interminable customs checks — will continue year after year. Neither is plausible.

The UK is a European country and always will be.

Trade and contacts among the nations of Europe can and should continue much as before. And I have no doubt they will do so.

But the political nature of the EU has changed since monetary union.

The EU failed to recognise that the euro would demand fiscal and political integration if it was to succeed, and that countries outside the euro area would require a different kind of EU membership.

It was inevitable, therefore that, sooner or later, Britain would decide to withdraw from a political project in which it had little interest apart from the shared desire for free trade.

Leaving the EU is not the end of the world, any more than it will deliver the promised land.

Nonetheless, the country is entitled to expect something better than a muddled commitment to perpetual subordination from which the UK cannot withdraw without the agreement of the EU.

Many MPs will argue that “we are where we are”, that it’s too late to change course, and that May’s deal is the only deal available. But remember, this is a political not an economic crisis.

If Blair and Johnson, from opposing political viewpoints, can see the fatal weaknesses of this proposed deal, politicians of all hues should try to do the same.

This deal will not end the divisiveness of the debate about Britain’s relationship with the EU.

The Remain camp will continue to argue, correctly, that to align the country indefinitely with laws over which it has no influence is madness, and a second referendum is vital to escape from this continuing nightmare.

And the Leave camp will argue, also correctly, that it is intolerable for the fifth largest economy in the world to continue indefinitely as a fiefdom.

If this deal is not abandoned, I believe the UK will end up repealing it unilaterally — regardless of the grave damage that would do to Britain’s reputation and standing.

Vassal states do not go gently into that good night. They rage.

If this Parliament bequeaths to its successors the choice between a humiliating submission and the abolition of a binding international treaty, it will not be forgiven — and will not deserve to be.

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Ho-Ho-Ho-tek
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Ho-Ho-Ho-tek » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:08 am

I'm so bored of this now, it's all over our news as well understandably.

Whens the 2nd Referendum?

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Hyperion
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Hyperion » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:12 am

2nd October 2009

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Ad7 wrote:stop moaning about it
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The Cuttcracker Suite
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by The Cuttcracker Suite » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:41 am



Leave.EU in antisemitism... what's the opposite of shock?

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Peter Crisp » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:08 pm

DML wrote:Piers Morgan sputtering his 'But it's da will of the peepol' stuff failing to grasp the reality of the situation made my morning.


This always makes me cringe as the way they shout "The will of the people!" makes it sound like the referendum result was a huge victory rather than the tiny margin they actually got.
It only takes a relatively small number of the people who voted for Brexit to decide it's not what they thought and it won't be the will of the people anymore.

I back a second referendum as at this point it's the only sensible option. If the vote still goes the way of Brexit then fine but we need a vote with the full knowledge of what Brexit is and what it'll cost everyone.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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OrangeReindeer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by OrangeReindeer » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:17 pm

Peter Crisp wrote:we need a vote with the full knowledge of what Brexit is and what it'll cost everyone.


Well we're never getting that

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Garth of Christmas Future
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth of Christmas Future » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:25 pm




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Garth of Christmas Future
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth of Christmas Future » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:06 pm





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Eat it Harvey
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Eat it Harvey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:15 pm

I will say that despite the UK being in a strawberry floating mess because of this whole thing I am enjoying watching the government literally fall apart, while May tries desperately to hold it all together with sellotape and wishes.

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Partridge Iciclebubbles
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:20 pm

Eat it Harvey wrote:I will say that despite the UK being in a strawberry floating mess because of this whole thing I am enjoying watching the government literally fall apart, while May tries desperately to hold it all together with sellotape and wishes.


I would enjoy it if it was a work of fiction or if I was watching a documentary about it long after the events had played out.

Living through it isn’t much fun though.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Eat it Harvey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:24 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Eat it Harvey wrote:I will say that despite the UK being in a strawberry floating mess because of this whole thing I am enjoying watching the government literally fall apart, while May tries desperately to hold it all together with sellotape and wishes.


I would enjoy it if it was a work of fiction or if I was watching a documentary about it long after the events had played out.

Living through it isn’t much fun though.

True.

But I take my enjoyment where I can get it.

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Garth of Christmas Future
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth of Christmas Future » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:32 pm


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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by imbusydoctorwho » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:07 pm

What a fudging mess, 3 months till we're 'supposed' to leave and there's talk of general elections.


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