Brexit Thread 2

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How would you vote if we had to vote again?

Leave
12
7%
Remain
159
93%
 
Total votes: 171
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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lex-Man » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:47 am

I personally think the best thing to do would be to abstain from the vote, thus allowing it through but not giving it your support. Voting against it would be an easy out for the Tories and they'd probably take a lot of flak for voting for it. Although if Corybn pushes to vote against it might be necessary to vote for it.

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satriales
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by satriales » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:20 am

I think Labour would vote against it in the hope that it would lead to the deadline being extended and a better deal negotiated, or the government collapsing and a general election being called.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:59 am

Lagamorph wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Labour MPs reveal they are ready to rescue Theresa May's Brexit deal in Commons vote

Multiple Labour MPs have told The Independent they are prepared to support the Brexit agreement Theresa May hopes to bring back from Brussels, boosting the prime minister’s chances of forcing it through parliament.
The MPs include the first to state publicly that they will struggle to vote against a deal secured in Brussels if the alternative is a no-deal Brexit – even if, as expected, Jeremy Corbyn orders his party to oppose it.
They say that crashing out of the EU would be a disaster for their constituents, while also fearing a backlash from voters accusing them of blocking Brexit.


Labour MPs told The Independent that at least 15 could rebel against Mr Corbyn and back the government, which could be enough to tip the balance in the Commons in favour of the deal.

One prepared to go public, Gareth Snell, MP for Stoke Central, said: “If the deal is some sort of customs union, protection of the unity of the union and looking at a future trade deal, it would be very hard to justify why we’re not supporting that.”
Ruth Smeeth, Stoke North MP, said: “If the option is voting for the deal or voting for something that would mean no deal – well, I’m not prepared to vote for no-deal.”
Don Valley MP Caroline Flint said: “I believe if there is a reasonable deal that stops us crashing out with no deal, we shouldn’t rule it out.”


I don’t see why labour wouldn’t support any deal over a no deal. Once they get back into power they can look to improve the deal and form closes links if they so wish.

Corbyn wants no deal Brexit. Getting the Conservatives to take the blame for it is just a bonus.


Sorry I meant to write labour MPs, I know Corbyn and his close supporters want no deal but I believe the majority of labour MPs would want almost any deal over a no deal.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lex-Man » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:03 am

To get a extension we'd actually have to ask the EU for it and that requires a functional government to do, which we won't have if the Tories just turn on each other.
Also even if we do ask we're still not guaranteed to get one.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:07 am

From behind the Sunday Times paywall,

The PM is fighting the cabinet, Brexiteers, the DUP and the EU. Unless she can persuade Brussels to back down, she may be finished

Theresa May said almost nothing. Only the look on her face revealed the prime minister’s feelings as one after another of a select group of her ministers lined up to denounce the Brexit deal her team had been negotiating with Brussels. Sajid Javid, the home secretary, borrowed the vintage US political insult about putting “lipstick on a pig” and called the plan little better than “third country status with lipstick on it”.

Those who were there say May allowed herself a look of surprise when Jeremy Hunt, the foreign secretary, spoke against a proposal from Brussels for a “backstop” deal that would see Britain join a customs union in perpetuity. Hunt, along with Javid, Liam Fox and Gavin Williamson and the Brexit secretary, Dominic Raab, all made clear they would oppose any deal with no end point or break clause when Britain could leave the customs union without permission from Brussels.

If the ministers in the room on Thursday teatime were unhappy, those who were not invited were angry.

The three Brexitettes, Andrea Leadsom, Penny Mordaunt and Esther McVey, are this weekend exchanging calls and deciding whether to resign after this Tuesday’s full cabinet meeting. They want a firm end date. “Andrea’s on the wobble,” said one cabinet source.

Now the prime minister is fighting against her cabinet, Brexiteers and remainers on her back benches, the DUP whose 10 MPs prop up her government, the civil service and the rest of the EU.

The extended customs union plan is designed to solve another problem, that Brussels is trying to carve Northern Ireland away from the rest of the UK.

Britain is on the back foot, several ministers complained, because of remainers — including Chuka Umunna and Tony Blair — who have visited Brussels and urged officials to keep pressing in the hope that they can force a new referendum. A cabinet minister said: “Some people in the commission still think we are going to roll over and change our minds.”

Others say May has been ill-served by Robbins who, it is alleged, overstepped his brief in the spring by indicating to his opposite number, Michel Barnier, that May would give ground. “Robbins said he thought he could get Britain to agree to a customs union,” a source said. “He said he could square her.”

May’s position has also been eroded by a cavalier attitude towards the DUP. Nigel Dodds, the party’s leader in Westminster, last week sounded off to Tory MPs. “He was vitriolic about her,” one said. “He says she doesn’t listen. She sits there like a wooden tent pole. He was wondering whether she can last the month.”

The unionist dynamic has also led Ruth Davidson, the Tory leader in Scotland, and the Scottish secretary, David Mundell, to tell Downing Street that they would resign if new differences between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK were introduced — something they reckon would be exploited by the SNP to press for Scottish independence.

To make matters worse for May, Tories who backed remain but who are strong unionists, now say they will not support the deal being drawn up. Sir Hugo Swire, a former minister, said: “I was a Eurosceptic remainer. I won’t vote for anything that weakens Northern Ireland within the union. A customs union would clearly have to have an end date on it.”

The whips have also threatened MPs with a general election unless they back whatever deal May returns from Brussels with. Insiders say No 10 aides have had open discussions about an election and that extra canvassing has been ordered in target seats. One MP said: “I’ve had messages that show preparations are already taking place for an election.”

This is greeted with horror by ministers and MPs. Those in the cabinet say they would “stage an intervention” if May tried to go to the country. A former minister was blunter: “If she threatens an election we’ll change leader.”

That might happen anyway if May sticks to her course. In a heated conversation in the Commons smoking room on Wednesday night, MPs who have previously been loyal to May openly discussed submitting letters to the 1922 committee demanding a vote of no confidence in May. MPs claim that four letters were submitted last week on top of three being submitted during the week of Tory conference. One MP running the numbers said there were between 42 and 44 , four short of the number required. A senior backbencher said: “If we decide to tip it over, it’s the work of an afternoon to get the letters.”

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Tineash » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Lagamorph wrote:From behind the Sunday Times paywall,

Britain is on the back foot, several ministers complained, because of remainers — including Chuka Umunna and Tony Blair — who have visited Brussels and urged officials to keep pressing in the hope that they can force a new referendum. A cabinet minister said: “Some people in the commission still think we are going to roll over and change our minds.”

Others say May has been ill-served by Robbins who, it is alleged, overstepped his brief in the spring by indicating to his opposite number, Michel Barnier, that May would give ground. “Robbins said he thought he could get Britain to agree to a customs union,” a source said. “He said he could square her.”



Ahh, the Dolchstosslegende. Brilliant.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Squinty » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:22 pm

Olly Robbins might be our Dark Knight.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:30 pm

CHAOS!

Looks lke it's time to face the issues they've been kicking down the road for a couple of years, and May really made things more difficult for herself with the "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "no customs union" statements, the snap election giving the DUP a position of power over her, giving people the impression we can come out of this better off etc. She's going to need more than a handful of Labour MPs to vote for her deal if the ERG and the DUP vote against it too.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Squinty » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:36 pm

Honestly, if she calls another election, it will be a massive farce. She will cement herself as the worst PM in living memory.

Well, it does kind of water down that leaver argument of 'You can't keep asking for votes until you get the result you want'.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by BID0 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:49 pm

KK wrote:Through my letterbox this morning, ladies:

Image
Image

You’re in London right? My £200 was well spent then. Why are they canvassing in London :fp:

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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Meep » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Must remember to buy some popcorn for the coming spectacle in the next couple of weeks. At this point I might well get some entertainment out of this mess.

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Sprouty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Sprouty » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:49 pm

Squinty wrote:Honestly, if she calls another election, it will be a massive farce. She will cement herself as the worst PM in living memory.

Well, it does kind of water down that leaver argument of 'You can't keep asking for votes until you get the result you want'.


The last general election already did that, I'm surprised that point is not raised more often by those pushing for a second vote!

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Errkal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:59 pm

SillySprout wrote:
Squinty wrote:Honestly, if she calls another election, it will be a massive farce. She will cement herself as the worst PM in living memory.

Well, it does kind of water down that leaver argument of 'You can't keep asking for votes until you get the result you want'.


The last general election already did that, I'm surprised that point is not raised more often by those pushing for a second vote!

Doesn't matter if it was raised, if a remainer raises it they are just moaning and being an affront to democracy.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Cuttooth » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:10 pm

twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1051486171816218624



popcorn.gif

Come on, give me that Tory catharsis!

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Ecno
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Ecno » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:19 pm

Is anyone going to the People's Vote protest on Saturday? I'd quite like to go but have never been to a protest before, and don't know anyone else who's going.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:25 pm

twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1051504740444573698


But...

twitter.com/JamesERothwell/status/1051505679876403201


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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:31 pm

OMG :lol:

twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1051354927249920000


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Sprouty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Sprouty » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:02 pm

Garth wrote:OMG :lol:

twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1051354927249920000



:msgreen: Amazing!

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:09 pm

twitter.com/florianeder/status/1051516803468468230


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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:10 pm

Garth wrote:OMG :lol:

twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1051354927249920000



That’s fantastic :lol:


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