Brexit Thread 2

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How would you vote if we had to vote again?

Leave
8
7%
Remain
112
93%
 
Total votes: 120
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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:37 am

Garth wrote:Dominic Raab says Canada-style trade deal is 'off the table':
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 51026.html

'Majority of Cabinet' now supports move towards Canada-style Brexit deal:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... le-brexit/



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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:40 am




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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Photek » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:44 am

more heat than light wrote:
Photek wrote:Everyone vote labour please (if it leads to a 2nd Referendum)


Even if my vote did make a difference, I couldn't bring myself to vote for that shower of shite.

You've literally no right to be angry about Brexit then.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Jenuall » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:56 am

Whilst it's heartening that the idea of a "People's Vote" is gaining some traction I still don't hold out any hope that we will actually be offered any meaningful choice on the future of our relationship with the EU.

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Gemini73
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Gemini73 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:58 am

Hexx wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:Corbyn has been a very outspoken Euro skeptic his entire political career so why, and I'm not talking about folk here when I ask this, is there this belief across the interwebs that he is somehow going to be the man to save us from Brexit?


Because he (obviously bregrudingly) campaigned for Remain.


Doesn't mean he will begrudgingly support a second referendum. In fact, given how he has been quite opposed to it as Labour leader I'm baffled as to why anyone would believe Corbyn is our man. "Yes, vote for Labour, they'll save the day!" No, no they won't.

Last edited by Gemini73 on Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here".
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more heat than light
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by more heat than light » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:59 am

Photek wrote:
more heat than light wrote:
Photek wrote:Everyone vote labour please (if it leads to a 2nd Referendum)


Even if my vote did make a difference, I couldn't bring myself to vote for that shower of shite.

You've literally no right to be angry about Brexit then.


:|

Regardless of the Brexit situation, I will vote for the party who I think most closely mirrors my views. I don't see the point voting for Labour when they currently don't do this, and also they're led by someone completely incompetent. I'm not voting tactically to oust the Tories, that's just stupid, especially when the party you vote for might not be that much better.

For what it's worth, the party I have voted for on the past two occasions are against Brexit, would have a second referendum, and have been firm on this stance from the beginning. So how about you stop talking gooseberry fool and moan at all the people that don't vote Green.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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Gemini73
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Gemini73 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:02 am

Hang on, Photek is one of these characters who thinks Labour under Corbyn is "our saviour from Brexit"?

Oh dear. Disappointment ahead for you, fella.

“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here".
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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Hexx » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:02 am

Gemini73 wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:Corbyn has been a very outspoken Euro skeptic his entire political career so why, and I'm not talking about folk here when I ask this, is there this belief across the interwebs that he is somehow going to be the man to save us from Brexit?


Because he (obviously bregrudingly) campaigned for Remain.


Doesn't mean he will begrudgingly support a second referendum. In fact, given how he has been quite opposed to it as Labour leader I'm baffled as to why anyone would believe Corbyn is our man. "Yes, vote for Labour, they'll save the day!" No, no they won't.


Well there seem to be two types of Remainers who are also Corbynites and therefore support him/his commitment to making sure Brexit occurs

A) Those that take the view that "well what else can he do?". The people have spoken and anything not pro-Brexit is GE suicide.
B) Those that think JC is acting like he wants to achieve Brexit, but then when he takes power will reveal he's been playing 5D ultra chess and stop Brexit

:fp:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:12 am

Photek wrote:
more heat than light wrote:
Photek wrote:Everyone vote labour please (if it leads to a 2nd Referendum)


Even if my vote did make a difference, I couldn't bring myself to vote for that shower of shite.

You've literally no right to be angry about Brexit then.

What? :lol: :fp:

Voting Labour at the last GE was much more like a vote FOR Brexit given they campaigned on a pro-Brexit platform due to Corbyn.

If there is a snap GE in November I certainly won't be voting Labour, I'll be voting Lib Dem as I did last time as they are an actual anti-Brexit party.
From the sounds of things the senior figures in Labour are going to do their best to keep Remain off the table completely.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Photek » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:18 am

I hypothetically posted that IF voting for Labour meant a second referendum then vote for them. I stand by that, I don't care about if it's Labour or Tories or whoever has a viable path to a second referendum, this disaster could have more consequences on this island than anywhere else so kindly do one.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Drumstick » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:22 am

With regard to Brexit, there really is no way to win in terms of a GE. Lib Dems, Greens etc, i.e. the parties that are actually against Brexit don't have the support to win an election, Labour is pro-Brexit largely because its the view of the party's leader.

If a GE was triggered I'd still tactically vote Labour because despite their current stance on Brexit, they'd be preferable to the Tories with regard to things outside of Brexit. It's the best of a bad bunch type scenario, the lesser of two evils.

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
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more heat than light
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by more heat than light » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:25 am

Tactical voting just means you're happy with two-party politics. Nothing will ever change.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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Gemini73
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Gemini73 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:30 am

Voting for the party that will strawberry float up the country the least, as opposed to voting for a party that will actually do some good. Sadly such a party that doesn't actually exist.

gooseberry fool deal, isn't it.

“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here".
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am

But Labour likely wouldn't get anything different from the Tories.

Corbyn wants Unicorns just like May, his Unicorns are just a different colour.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Hexx » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:55 am

Lagamorph wrote:But Labour likely wouldn't get anything different from the Tories.

Corbyn wants Unicorns just like May, his Unicorns are just a different colour.


McDonnell repeated this this morning. They think they'd get a better bespoke deal...somehow.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Jenuall » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:09 am

Memento Mori wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:Labour should have worked on reducing the deficit in the economically strong years prior to the recession. The Conservatives should not have gone hard on austerity to reduce the deficit during a recession. Labour lacked foresight and the Conservatives did the complete opposite of what they should have.

That's my amateur level economics take.


I wish we could've had someone like you as Chancellor during the good years. Before the dark times. Before the Tories.


Labour did get the deficit down, from 97 - 2001 Labour pushed the deficit down into negative figures in comparison to the Major years where the Tories had been economically unstable with the deficit being well over 5% of GDP at certain points.

From 2001 - 2006/2007 it then stayed fairly consistent at around 2.5-3% of GDP, hardly an indication of terrible management by Labour.

Also the deficit is not the real problem, debt is. Running a deficit is not necessarily something to be concerned about if you are not actually building up significant amounts of debt. From 1994 until 2007 our national debt stayed fairly consistent at around 40% of GDP, it was only following the crisis in 2008 and the subsequent mishandling of the situation by the Conservatives that we see a massive spike in debt.

Debt was only around 40% of GDP if you pretend the billions of pounds of PFI deals Brown kept off-balance sheet don't exist. To the detriment of our hospitals they do exist.


True, PFI has been a complete gooseberry fool show for everyone. Sadly neither party, whether in government or opposition, was prepared to properly tackle the PFI elephant in the room.

It was a stupid idea when Major's government started doing it, was still terrible when Labour doubled down on it, and it was a complete farce that despite being critical whilst in opposition the conservative led coalition still carried on signing off on PFI schemes when they got into power! :fp:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:13 am

Hexx wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:But Labour likely wouldn't get anything different from the Tories.

Corbyn wants Unicorns just like May, his Unicorns are just a different colour.


McDonnell repeated this this morning. They think they'd get a better bespoke deal...somehow.

And therein lies the problem.

There are no bespoke deals of the type either Labour or the Conservatives want, and Labour have some of the same Red Lines as the Conservatives. Isn't Corbyn anti Freedom of Movement too?

A vote for Labour is every much a vote in support of Brexit as a vote for the Conservatives at this point, especially if their 'people's vote' has no option of Remain on it.

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Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Garth » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:40 am

more heat than light wrote:Tactical voting just means you're happy with two-party politics. Nothing will ever change.

I feel that our FPTP system and current polarised political climate will throw most third party votes in the bin. I think in our general elections it often takes compromising on some things to achieve other changes you want, or you could face ending up with governments further opposed to what you believe in. I can understand not wanting it to be like that though, even if you do end up continually in the minority. Living in a DUP stronghold, I'm well aware that my votes in general elections don't change a thing as no other party comes anywhere near their vote share, but I keep voting :lol:

Thinking back to the last US election as an example, I think some third party voters who for instance may have primarily voted Green in an honest effort to protect the environment and fight climate change would've made more progress on that front if they'd voted for Democrats and helped deny the Republicans their win, considering how close the vote was and the many very real environmentally harmful changes (potentially irreversible) that the Republicans have enacted since coming into power again.

Glowy69
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Glowy69 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:59 am

Labour had a massive massive chance and they've strawberry floated it again.

Absolute dickheads. I live in tory country im afraid. I voted for labour at the GE. They can strawberry float off now. Id just vote for lib dems or green.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Blue Eyes » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:59 am



Dearie me.


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