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Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:43 pm
by I Believe In Stool Bloke
pjbetman wrote:
BID0 wrote:Help to buy is discontinued now I think

It came in just after I bought my first house (I bought mine a year or two before the crash) and I never understood how H2B could be helpful, but I guess it depends which part of the country you are in. Like you could only put away £250 a month right? And house prices here were going up at about £1,000 a month so you were actually falling behind by saving money


Load of shite that ISA scheme really, it helps but nowhere near enough.

We made use of it recently. We basically got ~£1500 for nothing. Didn't feel like a "load of shite" at the time.

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:45 pm
by Partridge Iciclebubbles
pjbetman wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
pjbetman wrote:This is an interesting chart showing house prices since 1952.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... uaKLk6YytK

It shows houses doubling in price approx. every 10 years roughly.


Interesting, do those figures account for inflation? I'm surprised at the suggestion that the rate of growth would be that consistent - in the 90s there was a real slump where prices were either stagnant or dropped in many cases, but fast forward to the early 00's it was not uncommon for a house to increase in price by 20+% in a single year for example!

Basically the housing market is a nightmare for most people, but super easy to take advantage of if you are mega rich - like everything really. :cry:


I didn't mean that the growth was doubling EVERY 10 years, I meant it was doubling ON AVERAGE every 10 years. The 70's were ridiculous for house price increases - 30% per year was common.

It does take into account inflation, but only that it takes real figures for the data. £1891 in 1952 is now worth £216k. If £1891 was inflated until now, I wonder how much that would be?


£51,725.83

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetar ... calculator

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:48 pm
by Jenu-All I Want For Christmas
Moggy wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
pjbetman wrote:This is an interesting chart showing house prices since 1952.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... uaKLk6YytK

It shows houses doubling in price approx. every 10 years roughly.


Interesting, do those figures account for inflation? I'm surprised at the suggestion that the rate of growth would be that consistent - in the 90s there was a real slump where prices were either stagnant or dropped in many cases, but fast forward to the early 00's it was not uncommon for a house to increase in price by 20+% in a single year for example!

Basically the housing market is a nightmare for most people, but super easy to take advantage of if you are mega rich - like everything really. :cry:


I didn't mean that the growth was doubling EVERY 10 years, I meant it was doubling ON AVERAGE every 10 years. The 70's were ridiculous for house price increases - 30% per year was common.

It does take into account inflation, but only that it takes real figures for the data. £1891 in 1952 is now worth £216k. If £1891 was inflated until now, I wonder how much that would be?


£51,725.83

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetar ... calculator


So that £216k house is only a mere 4x more than it should be just accounting for inflation! :shock: :lol:

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:09 pm
by pjbetman
Jenuall wrote:
Moggy wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
pjbetman wrote:This is an interesting chart showing house prices since 1952.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... uaKLk6YytK

It shows houses doubling in price approx. every 10 years roughly.


Interesting, do those figures account for inflation? I'm surprised at the suggestion that the rate of growth would be that consistent - in the 90s there was a real slump where prices were either stagnant or dropped in many cases, but fast forward to the early 00's it was not uncommon for a house to increase in price by 20+% in a single year for example!

Basically the housing market is a nightmare for most people, but super easy to take advantage of if you are mega rich - like everything really. :cry:


I didn't mean that the growth was doubling EVERY 10 years, I meant it was doubling ON AVERAGE every 10 years. The 70's were ridiculous for house price increases - 30% per year was common.

It does take into account inflation, but only that it takes real figures for the data. £1891 in 1952 is now worth £216k. If £1891 was inflated until now, I wonder how much that would be?


£51,725.83

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetar ... calculator


So that £216k house is only a mere 4x more than it should be just accounting for inflation! :shock: :lol:


Money has gone up 25x, but the house only 4x.

However, if you had put that money in a bank, you'd have nowhere near £52k though (or would you?). Any data for that (you resourceful lot)?

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:44 am
by OrangeReindeer
pjbetman wrote:Money has gone up 25x, but the house only 4x.


Confusing way of phrasing it, that 4x increase is after removing the affects of inflation, while the 25x is inflation itself. I don't see any meaningful comparison (and it certainly isn't that the house has increased less than inflation, which is what you could easily infer from this sentence).

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:09 pm
by pjbetman
OrangeRKN wrote:
pjbetman wrote:Money has gone up 25x, but the house only 4x.


Confusing way of phrasing it, that 4x increase is after removing the affects of inflation, while the 25x is inflation itself. I don't see any meaningful comparison (and it certainly isn't that the house has increased less than inflation, which is what you could easily infer from this sentence).


Yeah, sorry, was just putting the figures out there (not in a very well written statement).

Actually, when you think about it, 25x money seems quite a lot. And 4x for a house doesn't seem like a lot (over 65 years), until you consider that the house value was nearly 2k, that is actually quite a lot. It's true that bricks and mortar are a great investment because they out perform inflation by 4x over the same period (average). However, to get a mortgage and pay the interest off it, you usually pay roughly twice the loan amount back. Not sure how you'd factor that into the figures.

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:07 pm
by Hime
BID0 wrote:Help to buy is discontinued now I think

It came in just after I bought my first house (I bought mine a year or two before the crash) and I never understood how H2B could be helpful, but I guess it depends which part of the country you are in. Like you could only put away £250 a month right? And house prices here were going up at about £1,000 a month so you were actually falling behind by saving money

Unless it's been discontinued recently I think you might be mistaken. I bought my house last year with HTB.

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:32 pm
by jawafour
In the period from the 70s through to the 90s, it was generally expected that, to buy an "average" house, you'd need to obtain a mortgage of 3.5 times your annual salary.

Of course, nowdays that formula wouldn't buy you a bench in vast swathes of the UK.

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:47 pm
by Partridge Iciclebubbles
jawafour wrote:In the period from the 70s through to the 90s, it was generally expected that, to buy an "average" house, you'd need to obtain a mortgage of 3.5 times your annual salary.

Of course, nowdays that formula wouldn't buy you a bench in vast swathes of the UK.


In London you’d need 20x salary just to get a garage.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... in-britain

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:45 pm
by Jenu-All I Want For Christmas
Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:In the period from the 70s through to the 90s, it was generally expected that, to buy an "average" house, you'd need to obtain a mortgage of 3.5 times your annual salary.

Of course, nowdays that formula wouldn't buy you a bench in vast swathes of the UK.


In London you’d need 20x salary just to get a garage.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... in-britain


Image
"There is no housing bubble, all is fine!"

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:50 pm
by pjbetman
Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:In the period from the 70s through to the 90s, it was generally expected that, to buy an "average" house, you'd need to obtain a mortgage of 3.5 times your annual salary.

Of course, nowdays that formula wouldn't buy you a bench in vast swathes of the UK.


In London you’d need 20x salary just to get a garage.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... in-britain


Madness.

And imagine if the interest rates started going up to a decent level? Would price even more out of the market.

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:15 am
by Sleighamorph
So according to a chartered surveyor my house has actually gone down in value over the last 5 years and is now worth £10,000 less than I paid for it :?

Weird though as every online valuation seems to think it's increased by £20,000, whilst my mortgage provider think it's increased by £30,000 and based the LTV of my last mortgage renewal on that figure barely a few months ago, giving me better interest rates because of it.
Not sure if the surveyor is doing me a favour or something so that my Help to Buy redemption liability is lower.

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:12 pm
by pjbetman
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
BID0 wrote:Help to buy is discontinued now I think

It came in just after I bought my first house (I bought mine a year or two before the crash) and I never understood how H2B could be helpful, but I guess it depends which part of the country you are in. Like you could only put away £250 a month right? And house prices here were going up at about £1,000 a month so you were actually falling behind by saving money


Load of shite that ISA scheme really, it helps but nowhere near enough.

We made use of it recently. We basically got ~£1500 for nothing. Didn't feel like a "load of shite" at the time.


What about the other 20k?

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:33 pm
by I Believe In Stool Bloke
pjbetman wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
BID0 wrote:Help to buy is discontinued now I think

It came in just after I bought my first house (I bought mine a year or two before the crash) and I never understood how H2B could be helpful, but I guess it depends which part of the country you are in. Like you could only put away £250 a month right? And house prices here were going up at about £1,000 a month so you were actually falling behind by saving money


Load of shite that ISA scheme really, it helps but nowhere near enough.

We made use of it recently. We basically got ~£1500 for nothing. Didn't feel like a "load of shite" at the time.


What about the other 20k?

What's the other 20k?

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:45 pm
by Saigon Slick
Lagamorph wrote:So according to a chartered surveyor my house has actually gone down in value over the last 5 years and is now worth £10,000 less than I paid for it :?

Weird though as every online valuation seems to think it's increased by £20,000, whilst my mortgage provider think it's increased by £30,000 and based the LTV of my last mortgage renewal on that figure barely a few months ago, giving me better interest rates because of it.
Not sure if the surveyor is doing me a favour or something so that my Help to Buy redemption liability is lower.


Sounds like the chartered surveyor wants a cheap house. :lol:

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:08 pm
by Jenu-All I Want For Christmas
Had our offer for a house accepted, we're moving back to Cardiff baby! :D

Managed to negotiate them down to a price that was much more in line with what we wanted to pay which was nice as I was worried that we were going to end up spending more than we had budgeted for as both my wife and I loved the place.

Now just need to sort out all the legal bullshit, movers, transfer over all our services, sort out kids schools, pay all the fees and taxes... :dread:

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:18 pm
by Partridge Iciclebubbles
Jenuall wrote:Had our offer for a house accepted, we're moving back to Cardiff baby! :D

Managed to negotiate them down to a price that was much more in line with what we wanted to pay which was nice as I was worried that we were going to end up spending more than we had budgeted for as both my wife and I loved the place.

Now just need to sort out all the legal bullshit, movers, transfer over all our services, sort out kids schools, pay all the fees and taxes... :dread:


Congrats!

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
by Jenu-All I Want For Christmas
Moggy wrote:
Jenuall wrote:Had our offer for a house accepted, we're moving back to Cardiff baby! :D

Managed to negotiate them down to a price that was much more in line with what we wanted to pay which was nice as I was worried that we were going to end up spending more than we had budgeted for as both my wife and I loved the place.

Now just need to sort out all the legal bullshit, movers, transfer over all our services, sort out kids schools, pay all the fees and taxes... :dread:


Congrats!


Cheers! It's the first "proper" move we'll have done as a family so it's quite daunting but I'm looking forward to it all the same. We own our current house but it was bought as a new build and we had no kids and barely any furniture/stuff to move into it at that point so it didn't feel like such a big operation. Buying a new build removed a lot of the legal hassle and having so little stuff meant we were basically still in the "get it all in the back of a few cars" territory! This move is going to take a lot more planning! :lol:

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:48 pm
by Dual
Did your issue get resolved in the end Moggy?

Re: Buying a house (and renting)

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:06 pm
by Partridge Iciclebubbles
Dual wrote:Did your issue get resolved in the end Moggy?


Nope. I decided in the end to call the landlords and they asked me to email them with the details. I did that and they acknowledged it but then never replied, it’s been about 5 weeks now! I’ve been chasing them every 2 to 3 working days but still nothing.

Arseholes.

I’m going to have to get solicitors involved at some point, but I’m hanging it out just for extra proof of how they ignore requests (as if the last 5 years wasn't enough!!).