Buying a house (and renting)

pjbetman wrote:

Dual wrote:Bido that is a load of nonsense. If their paperwork is in place and they issue a high court writ Moggy is not in a good place.

No. The paperwork isn't in place, clearly. What Bido said is correct.

It's not clear though. Moggy might have it wrong.

pjbetman wrote:Have they sent any documents to you by recorded delivery or email? Have they sent any to your co-leasees?

We had a little bit of communication via email 4 years ago, it was basically me asking questions and them saying "we are really busy, we will get back to you soon" and then them never getting back to me. That's when I switched to letter writing and was still mostly ignored.

The recorded mail part is important as my lease states the following:

• Clause 7.5.1: Any notice (which includes any communication) to be served by any party to this Lease must be in writing and is deemed properly served if sent by Recorded Delivery or delivery by hand in the case of:-
(A) A company, to the registered office of such company; or
(B) An individual, to the address of such individual
In both cases to the address as stated in this Lease, unless such company or individual has notified the other of any change in the registered office of such company or address of such individual in accordance with the terms of this Clause.

They have never ever issued anything at all recorded delivery or by hand.

Well the Citizens Advise Bureau are useless. They have a drop in session from 9.30 to 1pm today and my wife got there just before 9.30 only to be told that all session are fully booked for the day. Unless you get there way before 9am, the sessions tend to fill up.

She’s going to phone a number they gave her and see if she can get any answers on the phone.

strawberry float me this whole thing is a disaster.

Dual wrote:

pjbetman wrote:

Dual wrote:Bido that is a load of nonsense. If their paperwork is in place and they issue a high court writ Moggy is not in a good place.

No. The paperwork isn't in place, clearly. What Bido said is correct.

It's not clear though. Moggy might have it wrong.

I fully accept that I might have things wrong, I am in no way an expert on these matters. But from what I have looked up the property management company have failed in three key areas.

1. They have not followed the terms of the lease by issuing notices by hand/recorded delivery. The lease states that notices not hand delivered or sent by recorded delivery are not properly served.

2. They have not followed the correction Section 20 consultation process. They did not answer my queries during the first stage and the whole of the second stage was not carried out – they claim it was but as per point 1 above, they have no evidence that they did post it as they didn’t send anything recorded delivery.

3. They have never answered my questions on the “excess” service charges that they have issued (again, they haven’t sent them recorded delivery). Despite many letters and several years passing, they haven’t broken down for me what it is they want me to pay.

I don’t think I am wrong with any of that but I don't want to risk going to court and running up high legal bills plus the risk of losing somehow and having to pay their costs plus the disputed “debt”. The very idea of it terrifies me as I don’t have the money to be able to do it.

I think it should all stop at point 1. If they haven't issued notices properly then they effectively haven't issued them at all.

Sorry you're having to go through this, Moggy, sounds like a right nightmare

Preezy wrote:I think it should all stop at point 1. If they haven't issued notices properly then they effectively haven't issued them at all.

Sorry you're having to go through this, Moggy, sounds like a right nightmare

I think it should as well, but I have acknowledged receipt of a lot of the stuff they have issued. They have broken the lease by not sending recorded delivery, but I am not sure if my acknowledging receipt counteracts that.

Point 2 is still valid though as I never received the second stage of the Section 20 notice. And point 3 works for the service charges as they have never explained what they are. Surely they can’t just demand money without setting out what the money is for?

There are a few other areas where they are breaching the lease as well. They should be sending me (at no cost) a certificate each year that breaks down the service charges and what they are used for. I’ve never received one of those.

I think I have more than enough to fight these bastards, but my cowardly streak just wants to pay them and end it.

I agree that you have more than enough to fight them with. Just see a solicitor that deals in property law to see what they think before you do anything. If it costs you a few hundred quid, so be it, it's better than just stumping up thousands with no rebuttal. That's what these kind of bastards thrive on.

pjbetman wrote:Come on dude, that is utter bollocks! Jeez, so the police are getting involved in civil cases now? Stop scaremongering Moggy.

A high court writ requiring eviction can be enforced by the police, there is no argument about it when and if it is served - you are thinking of debt collectors, which are essentially goons for hire. That is not the same as a high court enforcement officer, who are employed by the government afaik.

That is why I am implying the opposite, it seems unlikely they have the case to enforce that, but it is something they would want to pursue as a last resort, but is not always used as a last resort and is often done pre-emptively if the case exists. I don't think it does.

It's a valid awareness to get ahead of things like this because if someone is enough of a dickhead they will use the legal means available to them. You even get people sending out fake papers.

Sorry to hear the CAB was not useful. I say go see a solicitor ASAP and then you can get a clear understanding of where you stand. That one-off consultancy cost will be way worth it if means avoiding thousands of pounds lost without good reason.

If you pay up this time, what's to stop them from chasing you for even more in the future with exactly the same threats? Their behaviour sound completely predatory and you need to challenge them.

Even if you are worried about the impact of the legal costs should you lose, it's still worth going and getting things talked out with a solicitor. That doesn't commit you to a lengthy court battle, far from it, and it could very easily save you an awful lot of money.

The wife can’t get through to the CAB on the phone either. I get that they are underfunded and busy, but they seem pretty useless.

I guess it comes down to either caving in, getting a solicitor or ringing the property management company and hoping they give me some sort of extension on their ridiculous deadline.

I think OR is right, if I just cave in then they are only going to do this to me again. Although I think I will be more experienced in future, I certainly will not acknowledge anything they send me that isn’t hand delivered or recorded delivery.

I haven’t acknowledged their letter with the deadline (which is Wednesday next week), I don’t want to lie about not receiving it though.

strawberry float I am rambling. I am stuck at work and can’t really be calling/visiting solicitors today and so have asked my wife to look at getting solicitors details. Let’s see if any of them can see me over the weekend/Monday/Tuesday.

I hate this sort of gooseberry fool. Why can’t I just be left alone without having to deal with arseholes.

Moggy, I'd support the advice of other folks here and suggest that talking to a solicitor (or other professional adviser) has become a must. These guys asking for the money appear to be trying to lure you into paying them substantial sums with short notice; it's a horrible situation but I suspect that if you do hand over large sums of money, they'll be back for more. Solicitor / professional fees definitely aren't cheap but it appears that things have progressed to a point where their advice will be essential.

A lot of solicitors will give you a free initial consultation as well so there's really nothing to lose by approaching one. They can usually use that initial consultation to determine if you've got a decent chance before spending any money.

jawafour wrote:Moggy, I'd support the advice of other folks here and suggest that talking to a solicitor (or other professional adviser) has become a must. These guys asking for the money appear to be trying to lure you into paying them substantial sums with short notice; it's a horrible situation but I suspect that if you do hand over large sums of money, they'll be back for more. Solicitor / professional fees definitely aren't cheap but it appears that things have progressed to a point where their advice will be essential.

Lagamorph wrote:A lot of solicitors will give you a free initial consultation as well so there's really nothing to lose by approaching one. They can usually use that initial consultation to determine if you've got a decent chance before spending any money.

Yeah it really has got to the stage where I don’t think I can put it off any longer.

My wife has called the solicitors that her boss uses but the guy she knows is out of the office until later and she’s waiting for a call back. If he hasn’t called her back in the next hour, then we have another solicitors we are going to try and get an appointment with.

I need to stop being so lethargic about all this so maybe it is a good thing it is all coming to a head. It’s been rumbling away in the background for over 4 and a half years now!

And the strawberry floating flat is going on the market soon as well. I can’t live with being in a leasehold for much longer, especially with banana splits like this in charge of the building.

Green Gecko wrote:

pjbetman wrote:Come on dude, that is utter bollocks! Jeez, so the police are getting involved in civil cases now? Stop scaremongering Moggy.

A high court writ requiring eviction can be enforced by the police, there is no argument about it when and if it is served - you are thinking of debt collectors, which are essentially goons for hire. That is not the same as a high court enforcement officer, who are employed by the government afaik.

That is why I am implying the opposite, it seems unlikely they have the case to enforce that, but it is something they would want to pursue as a last resort, but is not always used as a last resort and is often done pre-emptively if the case exists. I don't think it does.

It's a valid awareness to get ahead of things like this because if someone is enough of a dickhead they will use the legal means available to them. You even get people sending out fake papers.

We never said to ignore police officers and court orders though we said don't pay thousands of pounds whenever someone sends you a letter asking for money.

Damn Moggy, I have no advice to add but I hope this works out for you - that's really shitty.

I sort of have a solicitor the case now. There wasn’t time today to do anything but he asked that I email all the documents to him and he’ll look them over on Monday morning and get back to me.

Looks like I’m fighting these banana splits.

Good on you Moggy.

Management companies essentially rely on people paying blindly and never asking questions. As far as I know they're legally obligated to provide breakdowns of all charges when asked and can't just start slapping penalties on however they like, and have to be able to prove work was carried out.

I've nothing to say except good luck moggy, strawberry floating horrendous situation. Hope once the docs are looked at on Monday you get some good news about your prospects with this.

BID0 wrote:

Green Gecko wrote:

pjbetman wrote:Come on dude, that is utter bollocks! Jeez, so the police are getting involved in civil cases now? Stop scaremongering Moggy.

A high court writ requiring eviction can be enforced by the police, there is no argument about it when and if it is served - you are thinking of debt collectors, which are essentially goons for hire. That is not the same as a high court enforcement officer, who are employed by the government afaik.

That is why I am implying the opposite, it seems unlikely they have the case to enforce that, but it is something they would want to pursue as a last resort, but is not always used as a last resort and is often done pre-emptively if the case exists. I don't think it does.

It's a valid awareness to get ahead of things like this because if someone is enough of a dickhead they will use the legal means available to them. You even get people sending out fake papers.

We never said to ignore police officers and court orders though we said don't pay thousands of pounds whenever someone sends you a letter asking for money.

Alright sorry it wasn't really relevant.

Young people with deposits still cannot buy homes - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45776289

Onward, a think tank, has suggested that the government should give UK private renters a chance to buy their home by rewarding landlords who sell to long-term tenants.

It says buy-to-let properties should be eligible for 100% capital gains tax relief if sold to a sitting tenant who has lived there for three years.

Onward says the average gain per property would be £15,000, or £7,500 divided between the landlord and tenant.

The centre right think tank estimates 88,000 households would be eligible to take up the relief each year, costing the Treasury around £1.32bn a year.

An absolute nonsense idea that no landlord would ever take up.

Also "rewarding landlords", strawberry float off.