Ched Evans - should he play football again?

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lex-man
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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by lex-man » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:23 pm

The thing I don't get about this case is that as Ched Evans was drunk as well, surly the woman is equally as guilty as he is?

I don't know what it says about me but I found this sentence incredibly funny.

A man, O, gave evidence that, two weeks after 29 May 2011, he had been out drinking with X, and had engaged in consensual sexual intercourse, during which she instructed him to penetrate her vaginally from behind, shouting, “strawberry float me harder”.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Tell Karl his brother is dead » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:51 pm

lex-man wrote:The thing I don't get about this case is that as Ched Evans was drunk as well, surly the woman is equally as guilty as he is?


I mean, there is a difference though isn't there, between being a bit drunk, and being black-out drunk or like passed out or whatever. I don't know anything about this case in particular but it seems important to make that distinction.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by lex-man » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:52 pm

Karl wrote:
lex-man wrote:The thing I don't get about this case is that as Ched Evans was drunk as well, surly the woman is equally as guilty as he is?


I mean, there is a difference though isn't there, between being a bit drunk, and being black-out drunk or like passed out or whatever. I don't know anything about this case in particular but it seems important to make that distinction.


Fair enough, I had assumed they were both equally drunk.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Fade » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:28 pm

By hearing the new evidence it sounded like they had sex, she didn't object to it at the time. Woke up in the morning drunk and confused. Woke up feeling disgusting with a hazy memory of the night before and assumed she had been raped? Is that about the long and short of it?

It seems kind of scary if that's the case.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:39 pm

Fade wrote:By hearing the new evidence it sounded like they had sex, she didn't object to it at the time. Woke up in the morning drunk and confused. Woke up feeling disgusting with a hazy memory of the night before and assumed she had been raped? Is that about the long and short of it?

It seems kind of scary if that's the case.


They also had pizza.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Lastpostamorph » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:44 pm

lex-man wrote:
Karl wrote:
lex-man wrote:The thing I don't get about this case is that as Ched Evans was drunk as well, surly the woman is equally as guilty as he is?


I mean, there is a difference though isn't there, between being a bit drunk, and being black-out drunk or like passed out or whatever. I don't know anything about this case in particular but it seems important to make that distinction.


Fair enough, I had assumed they were both equally drunk.

I believe from news articles that was Evan's assertion. That he was just as drunk as she was at the time.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Fade » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:07 am

I don't know if he did it or not. But it's strawberry floated up that he has to live with people harassing him for something he potentially didn't do.

It's also strawberry floated up that people harassed the victim.

It would be nice if people were more level headed.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Rocksleddy » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:01 am

Fade wrote:By hearing the new evidence it sounded like they had sex, she didn't object to it at the time. Woke up in the morning drunk and confused. Woke up feeling disgusting with a hazy memory of the night before and assumed she had been raped? Is that about the long and short of it?

It seems kind of scary if that's the case.

She didn't assume she'd been raped, more info's in that article on the previous page.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Fade » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:18 am

Sounds like she did. Says she couldn't remember what happened and that they admitted having sex with her.

How can you be sure someone raped you if you can't remember what happened?

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Tell Karl his brother is dead » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:37 am

Fade wrote:How can you be sure someone raped you if you can't remember what happened?


Okay, but don't you think that generally, if you're drunk enough that you black out, you're drunk enough that your ability to consent in a meaningful way to having sex with someone is impaired?

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by captain red dog » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:59 am

The article Hexx shared also mentions how drunken consent is still consent. It's when you are so drunk that you are unable to consent where the line is drawn. On that basis, and by showing her previous behaviour which was incredibly similar, the prosecution were unable to prove that she was drunk beyond the point of being able to consent.

The fact she went out and did the same 2 weeks after being raped is quite eye opening.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Rocksleddy » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:28 am

Karl wrote:
Fade wrote:How can you be sure someone raped you if you can't remember what happened?


Okay, but don't you think that generally, if you're drunk enough that you black out, you're drunk enough that your ability to consent in a meaningful way to having sex with someone is impaired?

Not in a way that's necessarily obvious. If you frequently heavily drink it's easy to be black out drunk and coherent. I used to get black out drunk every weekend but according to others I always seemed reasonably sober - many times I've woken up in someone's bed with absolutely no idea where I was, but I know that I would have clearly consented at the time.

Not saying that's the case here, to clarify.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Lastpostamorph » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:15 am

Karl wrote:
Fade wrote:How can you be sure someone raped you if you can't remember what happened?


Okay, but don't you think that generally, if you're drunk enough that you black out, you're drunk enough that your ability to consent in a meaningful way to having sex with someone is impaired?

But what happens if both parties are that drunk?

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:02 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Karl wrote:
Fade wrote:How can you be sure someone raped you if you can't remember what happened?


Okay, but don't you think that generally, if you're drunk enough that you black out, you're drunk enough that your ability to consent in a meaningful way to having sex with someone is impaired?

But what happens if both parties are that drunk?


Then they usually have really crap sloppy sex.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Lastpostamorph » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:34 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Karl wrote:
Fade wrote:How can you be sure someone raped you if you can't remember what happened?


Okay, but don't you think that generally, if you're drunk enough that you black out, you're drunk enough that your ability to consent in a meaningful way to having sex with someone is impaired?

But what happens if both parties are that drunk?


Then they usually have really crap sloppy sex.

There's another kind?

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Fade » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:19 pm

Sounds like they're both idiots honestly.

Him for doing it in the first place and her for not having some personal responsibility.

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Irene Demova » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm

Yes it's her fault she got raped, because you shouldn't get drunk without expecting to be raped by a third party (remember Evans wasn't even the guy she went off with)

Well done Fade

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PostRe: Ched Evans - should he play football again?
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Irene Demova wrote:Yes it's her fault she got raped, because you shouldn't get drunk without expecting to be raped by a third party (remember Evans wasn't even the guy she went off with)

Well done Fade


She does have to accept some of the blame though for the situation. It's not the case that she got drunk and was innocently walking down the street before being jumped or she initially agreed to sex before changing her mind and then being forced to.

The other guy was also initially accused of rape as well don't forget. She simply can't remember what happened and whether she consented or not. And as far as the law says she wasn't raped.

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