City 17: 30,000 UK Police to be armed with stun guns

Rightey wrote::?

Uh wouldn't that cause some sort of permanent damage to your willy?

"Don't worry baby, it's been tasered"

I'm not really sure about these things. Theoretically they should only be used when someone becomes violent and needs to be restrained but in other countries like the US officers have tended to abuse them quite a lot and taser people simply for refusing to comply with orders. At least with a gun you never use it unless absolutely necessary.

Extralife wrote:I'm not really sure about these things. Theoretically they should only be used when someone becomes violent and needs to be restrained but in other countries like the US officers have tended to abuse them quite a lot and taser people simply for refusing to comply with orders. At least with a gun you never use it unless absolutely necessary.

That's the US, though, and the training and standards are very different. And I'd rather have a chav zapped than a policeman stabbed.

MCN wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:A coin could kill if dropped from a high enough point. Shall we outlaw metal currency?

Hmmm. That doesn't sound very likely. A coin is a gram or two, it would have to be travelling extremely quickly to be fatal.

*Quick search*

The consensus is it's a urban legend. Drag on a coin is more than enough to keep it's terminal velocity below any fatal amount of energy,

What if the victim was looking up, and had their mouth open?

Dogs can't look up.

Uh. Damn.

Jimmy Shedders wrote:
Rightey wrote::?

Uh wouldn't that cause some sort of permanent damage to your willy?

"Don't worry baby, it's been tasered"

Like I said earlier, if it's the difference between having a copper armed with a gun or with a taser then I'd support the taser.
The police deserve to have a measure of protection from the scum they have to deal with but they don't need to shoot people to do that.

Looks like this thread hasn't gone Cal's way.

Uh-Oh, not tasers! Yup, this certainly is a dangerous police state now we've given the police the power to make violent criminals a bit uncomfortable for a bit.

Why not just give the police guns and tanks and gooseberry fool, to help stop the violent criminals? Why stop at tasers and stun guns?

Surely the main concern is the fact that in countries where tasers are regularly used, the police that use them have time and time again shown that they cannot use them correctly. It becomes less using them to incapacitate violent criminals, more using them to punish disobedience.

And you only have to google 'taser deaths' to see that there is much concern over the apparent safety of the devices. And no, it isn't just Amnesty that raise these concerns.

Good.

There is the main concern that Igor has spoken about above me, but if you're being so disobedient to the police that they feel the need to taser you, then it's right.

I think we've all seen the videos of idiotic American policemen going round stunning skateboarders for being in a no-skate zone though, and that's where the problem lies. Could that happen to us? Or is it just another "Those Crazy Americans" situation again?

Well every American I've ever met has been strawberry floating mental.

Xbox Live doesn't count by the way.

Jaxley wrote:Xbox Live doesn't count by the way.

I don't use Live.

Luckily, there are citizens of every country in the world one could class as 'strawberry floating mental', and just as many you could class as being sane and sensible. You've simply been unfortunate enough to only encounter some of the less sane members of American society thus far.

The police haven't got back to me about my idea of crossing the idea a taser with one of those water cannons.

Jaxley wrote:Good.

There is the main concern that Igor has spoken about above me, but if you're being so disobedient to the police that they feel the need to taser you, then it's right.

What about civil disobedience?

On the second of this month, Al Gore actively encouraged civil disobedience to prevent coal plants being built. Should non-violent, non-aggressive refusals to obey certain laws (or apparent laws, in the 'stop filming the officer' anecdote) be met with 50,000 volts?

Now obviously, it won't be general policy to electrocute peaceful protesters. But stick tasers/stun guns in the hands of every plod on the street, without a specific need for them, and it gradually becomes less about incapacitating violent (to themselves or others) persons, and more about maintaining order.

And that ignores the inherent risks of shooting 50,000 volts through someones system, sometimes more than once.

Igor wrote:
Jaxley wrote:Good.

There is the main concern that Igor has spoken about above me, but if you're being so disobedient to the police that they feel the need to taser you, then it's right.

What about civil disobedience?

On the second of this month, Al Gore actively encouraged civil disobedience to prevent coal plants being built. Should non-violent, non-aggressive refusals to obey certain laws (or apparent laws, in the 'stop filming the officer' anecdote) be met with 50,000 volts?

Now obviously, it won't be general policy to electrocute peaceful protesters. But stick tasers/stun guns in the hands of every plod on the street, without a specific need for them, and it gradually becomes less about incapacitating violent (to themselves or others) persons, and more about maintaining order.

And that ignores the inherent risks of shooting 50,000 volts through someones system, sometimes more than once.

Anyone with any background in electrical work will tell you that volts don't kill people, amperes do.

MCN wrote:Anyone with any background in electrical work will tell you that volts don't kill people, amperes do.

Yeah, I'd imagine the deaths attributed to taser use are probably coincidental.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=taser+deaths&btnG=Search&meta=

Besides that wasn't the meat of the post, was it?

Igor wrote:
MCN wrote:Anyone with any background in electrical work will tell you that volts don't kill people, amperes do.

Yeah, I'd imagine the deaths attributed to taser use are probably coincidental.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=taser+deaths&btnG=Search&meta=

Besides that wasn't the meat of the post, was it?

Those people will most likely due to heart problems, in which case being shouted at is also likely to cause death. Volts hurt, but without the current to back them up, they are harmless. A static shock is a couple of thousand volts, but it certainly is not lethal.

MCN wrote:
Igor wrote:
MCN wrote:Anyone with any background in electrical work will tell you that volts don't kill people, amperes do.

Yeah, I'd imagine the deaths attributed to taser use are probably coincidental.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=taser+deaths&btnG=Search&meta=

Besides that wasn't the meat of the post, was it?

Those people will most likely due to heart problems, in which case being shouted at is also likely to cause death. Volts hurt, but without the current to back them up, they are harmless. A static shock is a couple of thousand volts, but it certainly is not lethal.

strawberry floating painful though. Especially the arse/ball shocks. Just give the police some wrapping plastic and a metal object and let them rub the stuff all over any assailant.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/13/the_odd_body_taser_stungun/

Nevertheless, medical studies suggest that more not fewer deaths could result from the introduction of tasers and stun guns for police work. Some doctors worry that more deaths could occur since police may be more likely to use tasers and stun guns on a suspect thinking they are safer than handguns.

...tasers and stun guns are known to cause a suspect to suffer cardiac arrest, respiratory failure, malfunction of pace-makers, damaged eyes, injury to the central nervous system, and death. The death of an innocent foetus can occur as well as tasers and stun guns can cause a miscarriage when used on a pregnant woman.

...death of a suspect can result, in particular, if they have taken certain drugs - something that is often the case when arrests take place. They stress that tasers and stun guns should not be used in all ways police sometimes use them now - but would not use handguns in those same circumstances.

Recent findings of other research includes:

Of 75 people who died after being shot with a taser or stun gun, the taser was considered a potentially contributory cause of death in 27 per cent of cases.

...use of cocaine boosts the shock value of a taser or stun gun by 50 to 100 per cent.

As Right said, there is a mass debate (lol) currently underway in Canada over the use of tasers/stun guns, and related deaths. Guess how many tasers are available to Canadian police? 2000-3000.

Yeah, our police force will do great with 30,000 of the things. Besides, tasers aren't classed as non-lethal, only less lethal.

Anyway, that's distracting from the point that if front line officers carry tasers, then there is a real possibility that its use will extend to maintaining order.

City 17: 30,000 UK Police to be armed with stun guns

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