Could you go 'download only'?

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:Aren't you taking it for granted that a 50GB game will eventually be possibly on disc-based mediums?

As I've said, you're judging current download systems with this 50GB yardstick which consoles have even yet to get near. You just move the goalposts when it suits your arguments, allowing yourself to "take things for granted" when it involves consoles, but constantly implying the uncertainty of the future when you attack downloading.

What, pray tell, is the maximum capacity of a Blu-Ray disc? Oh, that's right, it's 50GB. Hence that particular yardstick.

That's not used at all though. No one except maybe Kojima actually uses near the capacity of a dual layer blu ray, and then it's only because he's never heard of compression.

MCN wrote:

Winckle wrote:

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:Why would you need to download a 50GB game right now anyway? If we're comparing download services to current-gen infrastructure, are there even any games available over 50GB? Is GTA IV about 9GB?

By the time there is, then you'll probably be able to download it in an hour.

You're judging the download service on a limit that isn't even available on current-gen consoles yet? Hardly fair, is it?

Take nothing for granted. Just because something might improve enough to make it viable, it also might not. I'd love bigger games with more to do, and given the right pricing and infrastructure, I'd happily download it. I'll support downloading as soon as I know without doubt that it will work and it will benefit the consumer.

IT DOES WORK, LOOK AT STEAM, IT'S WORKING RIGHT NOW, GOOD LORD.

It's too slow for me. I hated waiting strawberry floating ages to play the games. I guess I'm too impulsive.

Ah yes, too slow, it would be far faster to wait for the game to arrive in the post. Or to spend hours finding it in a shop.

Woah, that felt a bit like deja-vu.

What, pray tell, is the maximum capacity of a Blu-Ray disc? Oh, that's right, it's 50GB. Hence that particular yardstick.

Well the most impressive internet speeds we've reliably got going in labratories today is 100Gb/s, so I put it to you, sir, that your 50GB game will take no time at all to download in the world of tomorrow.

Winckle wrote:Ah yes, too slow, it would be far faster to wait for the game to arrive in the post. Or to spend hours finding it in a shop.

Woah, that felt a bit like deja-vu.

It would take me at most an hour to go to the shop, ask for a game, pay for it, and walk home. I could probably install it in that hour, too.

Last time I installed The Orange Box, conversely, took me 6 hours to download, install and update.

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:Aren't you taking it for granted that a 50GB game will eventually be possibly on disc-based mediums?

As I've said, you're judging current download systems with this 50GB yardstick which consoles have even yet to get near. You just move the goalposts when it suits your arguments, allowing yourself to "take things for granted" when it involves consoles, but constantly implying the uncertainty of the future when you attack downloading.

What, pray tell, is the maximum capacity of a Blu-Ray disc? Oh, that's right, it's 50GB. Hence that particular yardstick.

I'll admit to ignorance on that fact, as I had no idea how much a Blue Ray disc held and thought you'd plucked the figure from thin air.

How many games are anywhere near that limited though? If GTA IV is "only" 12GB on Steam then I can't think of many games which are bigger.

It may be the limit of today's games, then, but it's not really an indicator of how big they are (more of how big they *could* possibly be).

MCN wrote:It would take me at most an hour to go to the shop, ask for a game, pay for it, and walk home. I could probably install it in that hour, too.

Last time I installed The Orange Box, conversely, took me 6 hours to download, install and update.

The difference being that you can spend those 6 hours doing something useful. What on Earth is your weird aversion to downloading things overnight? You don't just sit there and watch the bar moving. strawberry float sake.

Whatever way you slice it it's faster than ordering games, and you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Parksey wrote:

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:Aren't you taking it for granted that a 50GB game will eventually be possibly on disc-based mediums?

As I've said, you're judging current download systems with this 50GB yardstick which consoles have even yet to get near. You just move the goalposts when it suits your arguments, allowing yourself to "take things for granted" when it involves consoles, but constantly implying the uncertainty of the future when you attack downloading.

What, pray tell, is the maximum capacity of a Blu-Ray disc? Oh, that's right, it's 50GB. Hence that particular yardstick.

I'll admit to ignorance on that fact, as I had no idea how much a Blue Ray disc held and thought you'd plucked the figure from thin air.

How many games are anywhere near that limited though? If GTA IV is "only" 12GB on Steam then I can't think of many games which are bigger.

It may be the limit of today's games, then, but it's not really an indicator of how big they are (more of how big they *could* possibly be).

MGS4 reportedly uses the full 50GB.

Karlprof wrote:

MCN wrote:It would take me at most an hour to go to the shop, ask for a game, pay for it, and walk home. I could probably install it in that hour, too.

Last time I installed The Orange Box, conversely, took me 6 hours to download, install and update.

The difference being that you can spend those 6 hours doing something useful. What on Earth is your weird aversion to downloading things overnight? You don't just sit there and watch the bar moving. strawberry float sake.

Whatever way you slice it it's faster than ordering games, and you don't seem to have a problem with that.

I turn everything off at night. It comes with having your own electric bill to pay.

And I don't have an aversion to people ordering stuff online because I'm not being forced to do it myself.

MCN wrote:MGS4 reportedly uses the full 50GB.

Like has been previously said, in the cases of huge games, there are many solutions: compression, episodic setups, or just wait a tad longer for it to download - even at 4Mb/s (which is not a hugely quick connection by today's standards) you can download a 50GB game in the same time that you would have to wait for it to be delivered.

MCN wrote:I turn everything off at night. It comes with having your own electric bill to pay.

Then download it while you're playing another game. Or while you're posting on GR, Heaven knows you do that enough to take up the time of a moderately sized game download.

And no, MCN, don't lie -- the government pays your electric bill, not you.

Karlprof wrote:

MCN wrote:I turn everything off at night. It comes with having your own electric bill to pay.

Then download it while you're playing another game. Or while you're posting on GR, Heaven knows you do that enough to take up the time of a moderately sized game download.

And no, MCN, don't lie -- the government pays your electric bill, not you.

I paid my taxes to them, even when I wasn't in the country. I'm just getting it back. Not like you, who relies on your mummy to do it all for you.

Electricity can't be that much to pay, surely? I'm a student living with four other people, and we're always downloading stuff overnight as that's when our bandwith limit doesn't apply. This barely registers on the bill.

If we're going to use really pointless comparisons, it's probably less expensive then driving into town to pick up a game, or even buying a bus ticket.

EDIT - And it's not really Karlprof's fault he was only born 16 years ago and, as a result, does not yet have his own house. Were you paying the electricity bills while you were doing your GCSEs?

(I hope I've got his age right...)

Parksey wrote:Electricity can't be that much to pay, surely? I'm a student living with four other people, and we're always downloading stuff overnight as that's when our bandwith limit doesn't apply. This barely registers on the bill.

If we're going to use really pointless comparisons, it's probably less expensive then driving into town to pick up a game, or even buying a bus ticket.

I walk into town. It's good exercise.

I can't believe we've sunk to "I can't walk up the internet tubes to get my game, thus downloads are bad".

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:Aren't you taking it for granted that a 50GB game will eventually be possibly on disc-based mediums?

As I've said, you're judging current download systems with this 50GB yardstick which consoles have even yet to get near. You just move the goalposts when it suits your arguments, allowing yourself to "take things for granted" when it involves consoles, but constantly implying the uncertainty of the future when you attack downloading.

What, pray tell, is the maximum capacity of a Blu-Ray disc? Oh, that's right, it's 50GB. Hence that particular yardstick.

I'll admit to ignorance on that fact, as I had no idea how much a Blue Ray disc held and thought you'd plucked the figure from thin air.

How many games are anywhere near that limited though? If GTA IV is "only" 12GB on Steam then I can't think of many games which are bigger.

It may be the limit of today's games, then, but it's not really an indicator of how big they are (more of how big they *could* possibly be).

MGS4 reportedly uses the full 50GB.

Think that's just a lack of compression ( audio I'd say ).

In any case , one game? Sorry to say , but I think I could wait a few more hours of downloading for MGS4. As would every other fan.
Steam allows users to download the game before the game is unlocked on the date of release. So I mean , only games you want to pick up on the fly would take a while to download.


I also wouldn't mind if it was cheaper as it had no packaging cost!

More OT , there's not one aspect of gaming that would be shattered by the lack of a box and paper manual. Sorry , HMV might be emptier but like ... who cares?

MCN wrote:

Parksey wrote:Electricity can't be that much to pay, surely? I'm a student living with four other people, and we're always downloading stuff overnight as that's when our bandwith limit doesn't apply. This barely registers on the bill.

If we're going to use really pointless comparisons, it's probably less expensive then driving into town to pick up a game, or even buying a bus ticket.

I walk into town. It's good exercise.

So, to continue illogical arguments. If you live in a faraway, remote village which is unable to get decent-speed broadband which is widely available - how do you get to the nearest game store?

You say just because we have high-speed internet does not mean everyone else does. Just because you can walk into town does not mean everyone else is within walking distance.

You also have to buy money for clothes and shoes which you'll need to wear on this trip to the store.

You criticise downloads using widespread public reasons that it can't apply to everyone and then defend discs based on very personal, individual reasons such as the fact you can walk into town easily.

Parksey wrote:EDIT - And it's not really Karlprof's fault he was only born 16 years ago and, as a result, does not yet have his own house. Were you paying the electricity bills while you were doing your GCSEs?

(I hope I've got his age right...)

And it's not my fault it's been a struggle to find work in a town with few opportunities, and am therefore having to rely on JSA to survive. We don't even have a McDonald's here I could work at!

And KP, if that's how you're interpreting what I said, then you're a bigger idiot than I ever gave you credit for. My point is that it is much quicker for me to get my games from town than from the internet. Once they sort that out, fair enough.

MCN, in another thread, wrote:He's the kind of person who will absolutely not accept any change, even if it's for the better. The kind of person who holds back progress and development. A luddite, if you will.

That's MCN calling someone else a luddite. A hypocrite, if you will.

MCN wrote:MGS4 reportedly uses the full 50GB.

MGS4 hasn't been reported to use the full 50GB in ages. It was pre-launch hyperbole thrown around to make Blu-Ray seem superior. It's actually around 28GB. It also features a ridiculous amount of uncompressed 7.1 audio surround sound, as well as repeating huge chunks of data (I assume to speed up loading and/or install times). It could easily fit on a normal disc if they had bothered to try.

MGS4 also installs itself in chunks, ironically, it plays out like you're downloading bits as you play. Except it doesn't download in the background but waits until the end. Had it been a downloadable game it would have likely skipped the 10 minute install screens and been a much smoother experience.

MCN wrote:My point is that it is much quicker for me to get my games from town than from the internet. Once they sort that out, fair enough.

And my point, which you don't seem to have a response to, is that while downloading may work out more time-expensive on the face of it, it's actually designed to be done in the background, thus freeing you from any wasted time at all. You can also, as someone else rightly pointed out, pre-load games before releasem on Steam such as Parksey himself did with Team Fortress 2, and there's no reason any download service shouldn't have that - so you're actually comparing an hour the day of release with null on the day of release. You realise that that extra negative hour actually means that you've gained an hour and can play it before people who go to the shops, right?