Could you go 'download only'?

Karlprof wrote:

MCN wrote:So now we've gone from the original premise, which as stated in the thread title was Download only, to simply having downloads as the primary distribution method, with other options?

Hey, man, what can I say. I'm exploring possibilities. You know, for gooseberry fools and giggles and all that. For the record, though, there's no reason it couldn't go completely download only, and I'm perfectly willing to debate on that pretense, as I did for several pages.

MCN wrote:I'm all for the options blah blah blah

We know.

MCN wrote:That way, people have the option, there is still marketplace competition

http://store.steampowered.com/
http://www.direct2drive.com/
http://eastore.ea.com/
http://www.gamersgate.com/
http://www.playgreenhouse.com/
direct publisher downloads

MCN wrote:And if thumb drives and memory cards continue to grow in capacity it could very well be viable to use a kiosk-style system, too.

I can't see it working, but this is probably the best counter-point you've made all day, so I'll go along with it: I'd say that even with the prevelence of very large thumb drives, people will prefer the hypothetically lower prices of the online store (less hardware, wages, and shop rent involved), and the done-in-the-background nature of downloads. Again, going to a shop with a thumb drive, while a better solution than discs in plastic boxes, is still somewhat invasive. A lot - not all, but a lot - of the arguments against discs apply to kiosks as well, as you're only changing the thing you go and collect, and not any of the roots of the system.

It theoretically doesn't even need to be a thumb drive. I have a rather capable little USB powered external hard drive of reasonably substantial capacity (250gb), and with the rise of eSATA and the likes, it could become a very feasible option.

Infact, I'm reminded of a system that John Menzies used to operate a squillion years ago... eDOS, whereby they could actually duplicate your software instore on demand, on a variety of different platforms, including Spectrum games on Tape to 16bit software on 3.5 inch floppy disc.

Peter Crisp wrote:I think we can all now agree that DVD games will still be available for some time to come even if they are not the prime method of distribution. Most people will be download only in 5 to 10 years but not everyone and a large enough market will exist for physical media to make it worthwhile.

This seems like a reasonable stance to take. I reckon the shift to downloadable media will be extreme, and perhaps 95% of sales of games in a mere few console generations will be done over the internet - this will easily bankrupt shops like GAME and GameStation, but you'll still see a small selection of DVD-bound games (or maybe, perhaps, the ever-enigmatic thumb drive kiosk!) in the back of entertainment sections of large supermarkets.

TheTurnipKing wrote:

Karlprof wrote:

MCN wrote:And if thumb drives and memory cards continue to grow in capacity it could very well be viable to use a kiosk-style system, too.

I can't see it working, but this is probably the best counter-point you've made all day, so I'll go along with it: I'd say that even with the prevelence of very large thumb drives, people will prefer the hypothetically lower prices of the online store (less hardware, wages, and shop rent involved), and the done-in-the-background nature of downloads. Again, going to a shop with a thumb drive, while a better solution than discs in plastic boxes, is still somewhat invasive. A lot - not all, but a lot - of the arguments against discs apply to kiosks as well, as you're only changing the thing you go and collect, and not any of the roots of the system.

It theoretically doesn't even need to be a thumb drive. I have a rather capable little USB powered external hard drive of reasonably substantial capacity (250gb), and with the rise of eSATA and the likes, it could become a very feasible option.

Infact, I'm reminded of a system that John Menzies used to operate a squillion years ago... eDOS, whereby they could actually duplicate your software instore on demand, on a variety of different platforms, including Spectrum games on Tape to 16bit software on 3.5 inch floppy disc.

Oh aye. I just think that it's too similar to the old ways to survive when juxtaposed with the extreme ease and even lower prices of simply downloading the media. If people insist on getting their goods from shops (how dare they), I can see file transfer kiosks becoming more widespread than stacks of CDs and DVDs, though.

Isn't all the talk of Sony switching PSP to a download only device? I was watching The Bonus Round over on Gametrailers and they all seem convinced that's what Sony is about to announce (maybe at E3). It's the death of UMDs and an aggressive riposte to the rampant piracy of PSP games. This is the future, people, across all formats eventually. But it certainly looks like we might soon have our first download only console from one of the major players. And so it begins...

Cal wrote:Isn't all the talk of Sony switching PSP to a download only device? I was watching The Bonus Round over on Gametrailers and they all seem convinced that's what Sony is about to announce (maybe at E3). It's the death of UMDs and an aggressive riposte to the rampant piracy of PSP games. This is the future, people, across all formats eventually. But it certainly looks like we might soon have our first download only console from one of the major players. And so it begins...

In that case, I hope for their sake they improve the security, considering the current PSN downloads are available from the usual illicit sources.

You can pirate anything MCN, it's a question of being mature enough not to.

Winckle wrote:You can pirate anything MCN, it's a question of being mature enough not to.

Is that going to be Sony's new tagline?

MCN wrote:

Winckle wrote:You can pirate anything MCN, it's a question of being mature enough not to.

Is that going to be Sony's new tagline?

No, but perhaps offering enough value and positive incentive that piracy becomes relatively unattractive would be a good "tagline" for them.

It's really about making it inconvenient so the mass market aren't interested in it. DS is easy and simple to pirate, so the mass market do it, but you don't hear of rampant Wii piracy as much. The Wii is easy to get pirate games running, but it isn't easy enough for the mass market to get involved in it, as it requires a few programs and steps to get working. Unfortunately the target demographic of the PSP is the same demographic most likely to know about, and go to the effort of, pirating, which makes it a lot harder for Sony to get away with it.

Pirates have hacked Blu Ray drives and made the PS3 run backups, as far as I know, by ripping them out and connecting them up to a PC, or somesuch. There is a very small minority who will bother to do that compared to the large amount of people who find it easy to buy an R4 with some pre-loaded games, or put a simple app on the PSP to enable homebrew (not so easy now, admittedly, but the damage has long since been done). I know people who don't know how to actually use an R4, so they buy R4s that come with games and then get the original seller to update the game list every once in a while. If you told these same people you could play pirate games on the PSP2 by loading up a specific game then loading on specific files and running a buffer over run they'd just look at you funny then go to the shop to buy whatever game they wanted.

Some people will always pirate, and other people will always look for an excuse to pirate, and then there is the third and largest group that will only really pirate if it's ridiculously convenient and cheap to do so. That's the market you want to stop, and the one also easiest to stop.

Only two or three people on here pirate X360 games, nobody that I know of does it on PS3, a handful do on Wii, and it seems only a handful DON'T do it for DS games. It's directly related to how easy the systems are to get up and running, and if most of GR can't be bothered to hack the Wii then you have to ask yourself how much of a block does the PSP2 really need to put most people off from even bothering.

You can also get DSiWare from all the "usual illicit sources" but you can't do a damn thing with the download once you've got them. Can PSN content actually be run yet, or is it just being dumped for the sake of experimentation?

Klonoa wrote:You can also get DSiWare from all the "usual illicit sources" but you can't do a damn thing with the download once you've got them. Can PSN content actually be run yet, or is it just being dumped for the sake of experimentation?

Judging by the comments in the threads I see, they are running on the latest custom firmware.

A search for Wii, DS and even X360 pirate software brings up a ton of hits, but I can't find anything decent on the PS3 being hacked, or PSN games being playable. I found a report from the end of April where hackers managed to get some random thing running on the PS3, but it ended with "maybe this will lead the way for homebrew" and seemed very non-finalised.

Have you got a link to these comments? I tried searching for torrents of a few PSN games and found nothing either. I'm amazed the thing seems to be so underground as you'd expect the hackers to shouting it from the roof tops like usual.

EDIT - Although it looks like they've managed to find a way to get around the region locking of PS2 games on the PS3! I might finally get to play some of those US only Tales games after all!

EDIT THE SECOND - Damn, I was wondering how they got around the software compatibility issues but it turns out they didn't and it's only for launch US and JP PS3s.

I can't post the link here, as such activities are looked down upon, but I have PM'd you the link.

Klonoa wrote:Some people will always pirate, and other people will always look for an excuse to pirate, and then there is the third and largest group that will only really pirate if it's ridiculously convenient and cheap to do so. That's the market you want to stop, and the one also easiest to stop.

Cal wrote:Isn't all the talk of Sony switching PSP to a download only device? I was watching The Bonus Round over on Gametrailers and they all seem convinced that's what Sony is about to announce (maybe at E3). It's the death of UMDs and an aggressive riposte to the rampant piracy of PSP games. This is the future, people, across all formats eventually. But it certainly looks like we might soon have our first download only console from one of the major players. And so it begins...

As I said in the first post Ive gone download only on the PSP atm and it works wonderfully. For a home console I can see why people (including me) are keen to hold on to discs for things like swapping, trading and taking around to a mates house. But on a portable console none of these are advantages. Portable gaming doesnt lend itself well to taking piles of cartridges/discs around with you because you might feel like playing a different game but quitting out of an RPG to maybe have a fly around in space or tear up a race track all from the comfort of a memory stick is far more doable.

If Sony do release a completely PSN-centric PSP that only supports downloads Id say it was only an inevitability. The reason people pirate games on an R4 or custom firmware isnt because they are cheap: its because they like to carry all their games around with them.

A useful add-on might be a mini-USB connecting 3G adaptor for future mobile network usage as well.