Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)

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Rudolphin
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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Rudolphin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:55 pm

Mafro wrote:No new strikes or story missions :|


Nope, and it looks like there won't be any until Penumbra at the very earliest, so Spring/Summer next year. The lack of Story missions doesn't bother me as they're usually the weakest content in the game, but a new strike would've been nice.

Oh, and don't go googling for info on the later seasons if you want to avoid story spoilers. There's a video doing the rounds that someone found in the code that has a very spoilery title.

For though who don't care it's simple called Uldren is Alive! I haven't watched it but the teaser image is of...yeah. Him.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Mafro » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:05 pm

Already seen the video. Looks like they're continuing the ongoing story of the stuff in the Dreaming City which is nice.

With this annual pass it looks like they're 100% focused on pandering to the streamers and redditors which is great :|

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Rudolphin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:07 pm

I did hate the fact that the vidoc had a big section featuring them. But let's face it: they're free marketing. As long as streamers continue to play Bungie have a huge marketing reach for nout, like every other game out there. Twitch was abandoning Destiny in droves so it's natural they'd want to stop this.

Rubbish, but natural.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Rudolphin » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:21 am

So The Black Armory is getting a kicking on Twitter at the moment. Although it was advertised as endgame content, anyone below level 600 is apparently locked out of almost all the content and a lot of people lower than 600 bought the annual pass. The available forge is simply a variation on the Blind Well/Escalation Protocol tasks from earlier expansions too.

It seems silly to judge a whole season after a day, but it hasn't been a good start.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Parksey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:33 am

I don't get the outrage.

Like you said, it was marketed as endgame contact - as stuff for dedicated players who rinse the expansion content and look for stuff to do afterwards.

It wasnt billed as an expansion like Osiris or Warmind. It's not a new story with a new planet or anything. It's basically playing a tenner to have a few new things to do until the Spring, whereas before you'd probably be looking at next Summer (there was nothing between The Taken King and Rise of Iron in D1).

It's best seen not as an expansion to the main game, but a few things bolted on to Forsaken. As a result, it seems logical to put it at the end of the Forsaken content.

I don't buy the argument it's content that is "locked off". It's not locked off, you get it by playing the bloody game! The Dreaming City was only unlocked at the end of the Forsaken campaign and had a 530 level requirement. Was that locked off? The original planets, Titan, Io and Nessus, were "locked off" behind having to do a set number of campaign missions.

In an RPG, are quests with a higher level requirement locked off? I'm playing Red Dead 2 at the moment - are certain chapters locked off? I've been playing Diablo 3 as well, where loads of stuff is locked off until your level 70.

It's not locked off if you get it from playing the game. Go play the bloody game - and there are new weapon quests for everyone in Gambit, Crucible, in Strikes - and you'll level up quick enough.

The campaign was out for six hours and people were complaining that they couldn't reach the light level needed for the new Forge. Bear in mind, like Mafro said, these are probably the people who used to save Engrams in their vault, so that when an expansion dropped they could reach the power level as quickly as possible. These people want everything, but they want it all as quickly as possible. And when they finish everything, they want more. And more. They are constantly complaining.

Bungie played a different game with Forsaken. It was a lot slower in terms of giving you everything (like we said before, loads of stuff didn't happen until the various weeks of the curse, and it's still on going). The idea was to have the game more as a smooth curve, instead of something you hammered no-life-ing for a week and then moaning about nothing to do. Now you could make a little bit of progress whenever you play.

The no-lifers hate time-gated stuff, but it's to make sure Bungie don't spaff their load on everything as soon as it drops. This stuff has a roadmap going right through December and January. To moan after six bloody hours is ridiculous.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Hexx » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:33 pm

It's a badly flubbed release IMO.

First you have a series of kill X of Y with Z quests. That take you back to existing content.

Then you have the Forge. 615-630 content. That's VERY hard to do at 600 (not impossible). That'll take 2-3 weeks of old content for people to be high enough to have realistic chances.

They released all of this on the same night - so people rushed through old content to bounce hard off light requirements until they go and do more old content.

In a couple of weeks the Forges might be good - but it's a shock for people that were expecting new stuff to do to be told "Go do old stuff!!!!". Perhaps they had unrealistic expectations - but I don't think so. If you "completed" Forsaken at LL600, I think you should be able to do the new stuff off the bat (with a challenge). Not have to go back.

At the very least it should been better sign posted that those grinds should be done while doing old challenges/powerful drop content...most people I expect ground them out quickly (EP for example) in a rush to get to new content...only to be told "Nope. 10 LL too low! Sorry!")

Better would have been to stagger the release (say) LL increase one week, grinds the next week and the forge the 3rd week to let people power up ready.

As it is people came to "launch night" of new content and got told to back to old content. (There's no way to level 600+ that unlocks in the new content - you literally only have old stuff to do).

Add in the fact the first forge (so far) looks mechanically simple...it's only hard because you're massively under leveled

If you were a returning player - there's nothing new for you to do...except go back to the old content you left behind a few weeks/months. That's terrible for a DLC pack to entice players back.

The "entry forge" should have been 600/610 Light (say) to give people new things to do from the off

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Parksey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:33 pm

That's the thing, it's not a DLC pack. It's not an expansion.

It's an annual pass. Whether you agree with the practice or terminology or not, the idea was that Bungie were basically going to give more dedicated players more staggered content throughout the year. Not just drop it in expansions or DLC.

It's not DLC, it's effectively paying to get more stuff out if Forsaken when you've exhausted that. Bungie themselves said it was for players who had reached the endgame and wanted more reason to do things.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Hexx » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:15 pm

And?

There's still something wrong with end of Season 4 content being max 600LL
And the first bit of Season 5 content needing 615-620

Why release something the vast majority of your players can't do for several weeks - they'll just feel aggrieved. Release the LL ability up and then the activity later. Same overall results, much less hard feeling.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Mafro » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:23 pm

Sounds shite.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Rudolphin » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:22 pm

Parksey wrote:! The Dreaming City was only unlocked at the end of the Forsaken campaign and had a 530 level requirement. Was that locked off? It's not locked off if you get it from playing the game.


So. The more reasoned criticisms I've seen have picked the Dreaming City as an example of why BA doesn't work. Yes, DC was high level content with a, at the time, high barrier to entry. But you had so much stuff come before it that it felt like an extra treat at the end of a meal. BA, due to having almost zero content before the barrier this time, feels like sitting down at the table and not being allowed to eat whilst waiting for dessert (also, the dessert is a slightly different flavour of the one you had yesterday). It's 40 minutes of content before you're pushed back into the old gameplay loops.

I agree it's far too early to tell how this new model is going to work, but I think Bungie flubbed first impressions pretty hard.

Last edited by Rudolphin on Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Hexx » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:48 pm

The DC was also only one of the new things.

People that rushes to unlock it were underpowered - but that was their choice.

Those that took a leisurely pace to enter (you don't really get told what that chain unlocks) arrived at a much more sensible LL.

If you bounced off DC's difficulty you could also do a ton of new stuff (e.g. new strikes) or revamped stuff (PvP, Daily Heroics etc) or old stuff.

I think the best argument against the DLC's implementation...there's absolutely no reason to own it.
You could buy it in 2-3 weeks after your LL increases to were the Forge is reasonable and have the exact same experience (initial 4 grinds aside) as someone who bought it now who also has to wait.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Rudolphin » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:37 pm

https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/47501

Effective immediately, we’ve made some changes to the Power requirements for the Lost Forges of the Black Armory.

In previous conversations about the Season of the Forge, we discussed our new development goals. With the Annual Pass, we set out to deliver an extension to the Destiny 2 endgame. We want to create a series of aspirational challenges to keep your hobby fresh.

Over the past day, we’ve been taking in your feedback. It's become clear that we made the initial Power requirements for the Lost Forges too high, keeping those sweet new rewards out of reach. Some players at 600 Power have been unable to dive in and beat the final boss without grinding for new Power first.

We have just delivered a server-side update to reduce the Power requirements for all the encounters in the Lost Forges by five. We fully acknowledge that this is a small move, but it is the one that we can make today. This is not the full extent of the changes to the player experience that we are investigating, but it should give Guardians at 600 Power a better chance at completing the activity.

This response doesn’t answer all of your questions. There are still many of you asking how you can catch up and acquire the Power you need to join the quests to recover these Lost Forges. The answers to those questions are coming. We have some existing plans and some new ideas in the pipeline. That conversation will continue tomorrow in “This Week At Bungie.”

Thanks for playing. Thanks for your feedback. Keep reporting on your experiences out there in the wild.


This gooseberry fool is weak. Either you design content for the endgame well enough to stick by your idea, or you don't. I had no strong feelings one way or the other regarding this, but a capitulation just makes it look like Bungie strawberry floated up again.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Mafro » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:30 pm

Surprised to see them patch something so quickly that was a detriment to the players.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Mafro » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:58 pm


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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Rudolphin » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:16 pm

Mafro wrote:


I'll be honest, I didn't even know there WAS match making for the Blind Well.

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PostRe: Destiny 2 - Forsaken out now! (base game free on PS+)
by Mafro » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:20 pm

The matchmaking is basically lucking into being put into an instance with other people.

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