[DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 2.0

[Errkal]

Labour are hardly dead, sure tough times are ahead for them as they transition to "proper" labour rather than the right labour we have had. I don't get the view that this is a death of politics and stuff, if anything this is awesome it gives a proper split in the parties, a proper choice between ideologies and stuff.

It will create actual talking points and debates. I think this could bring a lot of interest back to politics and people that didn't really bother because of apathy will start to show interest as there are proper debate to be had. This could be a great thing for British politics.

[Moggy]

Having only 1 realistically electable party because everyone else are batshit mental or too 'out there' to ever be elected is a disaster for the UK.

The fact Labour now have a leader who is more an EU-sceptic than David Cameron is unbelievable as well.

What policies of Labour/Corbyn do you find mental and/or out there?

[Grumpy David]

Withdrawal from NATO
Unilateral nuclear disarmament

[TigaSefi]

I see the daily mail have started their corbyn hate campaign already. Now I'm not a corbyn fan but as with the run up to the election with milliband they are running article after article full of hate and lies which the majority of their readers (going by the comments) are lapping up.

I can imagine unlike Milliband Crobyn will quite happily push back at them, he did in his speech after they announced his victory. It is what is needed really they get left saying what they want too much and no one pushes back, they need to be told to stop it and I don't think he will be afraid to do it.

They already don't like him, what has he got to loose by telling them to button it.

Lose ffs!

[Moggy]

Withdrawal from NATO
Unilateral nuclear disarmament

I disagree with Corbyn on both of those (and many others) but neither of those are mental or "out there".

[Kanbei]

Withdrawal from NATO
Unilateral nuclear disarmament

Republic of Ireland is not in NATO or has nuclear weapons. I guess that Dublin is an ISIS cesspit because of this.

[Lagamorph]

SNP to set out timetable for second independence referendum

I do find it a little ironic that one of their 'triggers' for an independence referendum is a UK vote to leave the EU, when becoming independent would cause Scotland to leave the EU and be put in a position where it was impossible for them to re-join due to being blocked by countries like Spain.

[Errkal]

SNP to set out timetable for second independence referendum

I do find it a little ironic that one of their 'triggers' for an independence referendum is a UK vote to leave the EU, when becoming independent would cause Scotland to leave the EU and be put in a position where it was impossible for them to re-join due to being blocked by countries like Spain.

I also find it funny that Sturgeon has said they will only do it when they know they will win. It is almost like they are ignoring the whacking great No they got from the populate last year. Just because your party wants it doesn't mean everyone else has to have it, it is bloody stupid to keep calling refurendums until they get the answer the want, it makes a mockery of the process and democracy if when you get an answer from a democratic process you ignore it because it wasn't the answer you think is right!

[Moggy]

55.3% is hardly a "whacking great no" and Scotland overwhelmingly voted SNP afterwards.

Scotland seems to be very pro-EU and so I can see why they would want another referendum if the UK was to leave the EU.

[Rocsteady]

As soon as the vote became close it was obvious there would be a second referendum. I want it out the way; then the air of infallibility the SNP currently have can begin to be pierced whichever way the vote goes.

Currently it doesn't matter how they're doing in fields like health and education (within a certain amount of reason, of course) because they're going to get a majority of votes regardless. And that's a major issue.

[bear]

SNP to set out timetable for second independence referendum

I do find it a little ironic that one of their 'triggers' for an independence referendum is a UK vote to leave the EU, when becoming independent would cause Scotland to leave the EU and be put in a position where it was impossible for them to re-join due to being blocked by countries like Spain.

If Spain had to deal with the reality of an independent Scotland they'd be whistling a different tune compared to dealing with the possibility of Scottish independence. At the very least they'd have to work out an arrangement over fishing rights in Scottish waters.

[Lagamorph]

55.3% is hardly a "whacking great no" and Scotland overwhelmingly voted SNP afterwards.

Scotland seems to be very pro-EU and so I can see why they would want another referendum if the UK was to leave the EU.

Being in the UK is the only way Scotland has a chance of being in the EU.

SNP to set out timetable for second independence referendum

I do find it a little ironic that one of their 'triggers' for an independence referendum is a UK vote to leave the EU, when becoming independent would cause Scotland to leave the EU and be put in a position where it was impossible for them to re-join due to being blocked by countries like Spain.

If Spain had to deal with the reality of an independent Scotland they'd be whistling a different tune compared to dealing with the possibility of Scottish independence. At the very least they'd have to work out an arrangement over fishing rights in Scottish waters.

Spain would likely rather do anything it can to stop Catalonian independence, and there are plenty of other fishing waters they can access. The only way Spain won't block the entry of an independent Scotland into the EU is if Spain leaves the EU first for whatever reason.

After all of Salmond's currency talk as well, Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, and we've seen how great that has worked out for other countries.

[Stugene]

55.3% is hardly a "whacking great no" and Scotland overwhelmingly voted SNP afterwards.

Scotland seems to be very pro-EU and so I can see why they would want another referendum if the UK was to leave the EU.

Being in the UK is the only way Scotland has a chance of being in the EU.

SNP to set out timetable for second independence referendum

I do find it a little ironic that one of their 'triggers' for an independence referendum is a UK vote to leave the EU, when becoming independent would cause Scotland to leave the EU and be put in a position where it was impossible for them to re-join due to being blocked by countries like Spain.

If Spain had to deal with the reality of an independent Scotland they'd be whistling a different tune compared to dealing with the possibility of Scottish independence. At the very least they'd have to work out an arrangement over fishing rights in Scottish waters.

Spain would likely rather do anything it can to stop Catalonian independence, and there are plenty of other fishing waters they can access. The only way Spain won't block the entry of an independent Scotland into the EU is if Spain leaves the EU first for whatever reason.

After all of Salmond's currency talk as well, Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, and we've seen how great that has worked out for other countries.

Spain would block scotland's entry because of eu fishing. If Scotland was outside the EU, spain would not be restricted in terms of the amount they can fish - other than what Scotland demands.

Also, look at the huge majority the SNP gained after the referendum. I would think many people are pretty pissed off at the slow speed of Westminster's promises. In the case of another referendum, that is really going to come back and bite the No campaign.

[Grumpy David]

Is the SNP success following the referendum failure indicative of Scots regretting their decision and now wanting to leave the UK or that they just feel Labour doesn't represent them anymore?

[Rocsteady]

I'd say moreso down to the feeling Labour no longer represents the Scottish working class. It's also down to patriotism - stupid as ever - in certain sections of the population though, which isn't a valid reason for doing anything in the political sphere. And this is coming from someone who voted yes.

[Stugene]

After all of Salmond's currency talk as well, Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, and we've seen how great that has worked out for other countries.

Can you give me your source for Scotland having 2 years of it's own stable currency?

They cannot adopt the Euro without first having their own national currency (ie the Scots Pound). The instabilities of adopting such a currency could mean that the country is refused entry into the Euro zone.

[Stugene]

Is the SNP success following the referendum failure indicative of Scots regretting their decision and now wanting to leave the UK or that they just feel Labour doesn't represent them anymore?

No reason why it can't be both. Scottish Labour is a joke, and the EVEL system brings down the value of Scottish MPs - no matter if they are SNP, Labour or Conservative, they cannot help reject laws.

[Lagamorph]

After all of Salmond's currency talk as well, Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, and we've seen how great that has worked out for other countries.

Can you give me your source for Scotland having 2 years of it's own stable currency?

They cannot adopt the Euro without first having their own national currency (ie the Scots Pound). The instabilities of adopting such a currency could mean that the country is refused entry into the Euro zone.

Adopting the Euro is a requirement for joining the EU, so Scotland would have to adopt it sooner or later if it went independent and wanted to re-join the EU. This after Salmond's insistence that they would be using the pound in a currency union, despite everyone who's decision that actually was telling him it wouldn't happen.

[Stugene]

After all of Salmond's currency talk as well, Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, and we've seen how great that has worked out for other countries.

Can you give me your source for Scotland having 2 years of it's own stable currency?

They cannot adopt the Euro without first having their own national currency (ie the Scots Pound). The instabilities of adopting such a currency could mean that the country is refused entry into the Euro zone.

Adopting the Euro is a requirement for joining the EU, so Scotland would have to adopt it sooner or later if it went independent and wanted to re-join the EU. This after Salmond's insistence that they would be using the pound in a currency union, despite everyone who's decision that actually was telling him it wouldn't happen.

They can not join the euro unless they used their own national currency for at least 2 years. That is one of the rules of joining the Euro. Scotland does not have its own currency. They could not join the euro.

We already are a member state. The UK is a union of countries and we are one of them. It's some serious mental wrangling to turn round to a component of a member state that gains its independence and say "You can't be a member of the EU now". What could the EU possibly gain from not allowing Scotland membership? It's petty as hell to deny the only member of the UK which consistently polls that it wants to remain in the EU a place in the EU. It's not as if we are dangerous, or criminal in any way.

[Tineash]

After all of Salmond's currency talk as well, Scotland would have to adopt the Euro, and we've seen how great that has worked out for other countries.

Can you give me your source for Scotland having 2 years of it's own stable currency?

They cannot adopt the Euro without first having their own national currency (ie the Scots Pound). The instabilities of adopting such a currency could mean that the country is refused entry into the Euro zone.

Adopting the Euro is a requirement for joining the EU, so Scotland would have to adopt it sooner or later if it went independent and wanted to re-join the EU. This after Salmond's insistence that they would be using the pound in a currency union, despite everyone who's decision that actually was telling him it wouldn't happen.

They can not join the euro unless they used their own national currency for at least 2 years. That is one of the rules of joining the Euro. Scotland does not have its own currency. They could not join the euro.

We already are a member state. The UK is a union of countries and we are one of them. It's some serious mental wrangling to turn round to a component of a member state that gains its independence and say "You can't be a member of the EU now". What could the EU possibly gain from not allowing Scotland membership? It's petty as hell to deny the only member of the UK which consistently polls that it wants to remain in the EU a place in the EU. It's not as if we are dangerous, or criminal in any way.

It's complicated, but to put it simply there's a legal debate as to whether Scotland would 'inherit' EU membership from the UK or not, and it's in the interests of every existing EU country with secessionist regions (IE Spain, France to a lesser extent) to make it as hard as possible for Scotland to join the EU automatically. Pour encourager les autres and whatnot.