The Politics Thread 3.0

Our best bits.
User avatar
Return_of_the_STAR
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Northampton

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:23 am

E E EDL, E E EDL. I've always wondered why they all have a stutter?

Image

GRAPL Heavyweight Champion 2010, Runner Up 2017, tag team Champion 2011, 2015, Wrestlemania PPV Winner 2012 and your current all time highest GRAPL points scorer.
Fixture feeling champion 2013.

I'm a Paul Heyman guy!
User avatar
Return_of_the_STAR
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Northampton

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:25 am

Karl wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Might see if I can get pictures for the thread. I could be GRcade's political correspondent, live from the scene 8-).


This would actually be fascinating. Don't put yourself in any danger though.


Nah screw that, take a video of yourself reporting on scene, try and interview some of the nice gentlemen expressing their freedom of speech that their granddad won during the war.

Image

GRAPL Heavyweight Champion 2010, Runner Up 2017, tag team Champion 2011, 2015, Wrestlemania PPV Winner 2012 and your current all time highest GRAPL points scorer.
Fixture feeling champion 2013.

I'm a Paul Heyman guy!
User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:28 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Karl wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Might see if I can get pictures for the thread. I could be GRcade's political correspondent, live from the scene 8-).


This would actually be fascinating. Don't put yourself in any danger though.


Nah screw that, take a video of yourself reporting on scene, try and interview some of the nice gentlemen expressing their freedom of speech that their granddad won during the war.


And then ask them how proud their granddad's would be of their grandchildren turning to fascism.

User avatar
Return_of_the_STAR
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Northampton

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:33 am

Moggy wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Karl wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Might see if I can get pictures for the thread. I could be GRcade's political correspondent, live from the scene 8-).


This would actually be fascinating. Don't put yourself in any danger though.


Nah screw that, take a video of yourself reporting on scene, try and interview some of the nice gentlemen expressing their freedom of speech that their granddad won during the war.


And then ask them how proud their granddad's would be of their grandchildren turning to fascism.


And ask if they are there because they've been giving football ground banning orders.

Image

GRAPL Heavyweight Champion 2010, Runner Up 2017, tag team Champion 2011, 2015, Wrestlemania PPV Winner 2012 and your current all time highest GRAPL points scorer.
Fixture feeling champion 2013.

I'm a Paul Heyman guy!
User avatar
Oblomov Boblomov
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Mind Crime, SSBM_God

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Oblomov Boblomov » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:15 pm

Been out for a couple of hours but not seen anything out of the ordinary yet. I'm not sure where they're supposed to be meeting/marching. I need to get to the game in a bit so I might just have to do a puff piece on the increased price of pies at football stadiums these days.

Image
User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:44 am

Labour to raise minimum wage to £10 an hour

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/l ... r-10193118

On one hand it is good to improve things for those on low wages, however in the case of my wife this will put her on minimum wage for a job that she has done a lot of training for (Vet Nurse).

This sort of thing although helping those on low paid jobs doesn't encourage people to better them selves as the step up in pay for working harder, learning more, having more responsibility etc. is eroding away every time the minimum goes up because on the minimum gets raised, everyone above it stays the same.

User avatar
Squinty
Member
Joined in 2009
Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Squinty » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:15 pm

It's okay Errkal. It would take something monumental for them to get in next GE.

User avatar
satriales
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by satriales » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:00 pm

Errkal wrote:Labour to raise minimum wage to £10 an hour

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/l ... r-10193118

On one hand it is good to improve things for those on low wages, however in the case of my wife this will put her on minimum wage for a job that she has done a lot of training for (Vet Nurse).

This sort of thing although helping those on low paid jobs doesn't encourage people to better them selves as the step up in pay for working harder, learning more, having more responsibility etc. is eroding away every time the minimum goes up because on the minimum gets raised, everyone above it stays the same.

I get what you're saying but not sure I can agree. Even if your wife's wages didn't go up (and I think there's a good chance they would) it would be a bit selfish to refuse many others a pay rise just because it doesn't affect yourself.

User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:15 pm

satriales wrote:
Errkal wrote:Labour to raise minimum wage to £10 an hour

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/l ... r-10193118

On one hand it is good to improve things for those on low wages, however in the case of my wife this will put her on minimum wage for a job that she has done a lot of training for (Vet Nurse).

This sort of thing although helping those on low paid jobs doesn't encourage people to better them selves as the step up in pay for working harder, learning more, having more responsibility etc. is eroding away every time the minimum goes up because on the minimum gets raised, everyone above it stays the same.

I get what you're saying but not sure I can agree. Even if your wife's wages didn't go up (and I think there's a good chance they would) it would be a bit selfish to refuse many others a pay rise just because it doesn't affect yourself.


It isn't that mine don't go up, the issue I have with it is that it closes the gap between a job that requires no skill or training to do and a job that requires years of training, experience and stress etc.

It seems to me something like this would promote the idea of not bothering and whats the point if you can stack shelves for the same money as you get if you learn all about something and work hard to get there.

User avatar
Karl
Seyana!
Seyana!
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Karl » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:37 pm

Errkal wrote:It isn't that mine don't go up, the issue I have with it is that it closes the gap between a job that requires no skill or training to do and a job that requires years of training, experience and stress etc.

It seems to me something like this would promote the idea of not bothering and whats the point if you can stack shelves for the same money as you get if you learn all about something and work hard to get there.


If veterinary science is underpaid for the skills involved, it sounds like vets need to speak up and demand higher wages. If vets were paid minimum wage it doesn't indicate that minimum wage is too high - that should be judged by actual data about what a living wage ought to be - but it might indicate that vets' pay is too low.

As a more general comment, I feel you're basically saying "I want the underclass to be as poor as possible so they have a reason to try harder", which is the worst kind of backwards Tory logic. There will always be those who are richer and those who are poorer, but people don't have to be impoverished to aspire; and since living in poverty is usually associated with a lack of achievement it clearly doesn't work as a motivation strategy.

User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:51 pm

Karl wrote:
Errkal wrote:It isn't that mine don't go up, the issue I have with it is that it closes the gap between a job that requires no skill or training to do and a job that requires years of training, experience and stress etc.

It seems to me something like this would promote the idea of not bothering and whats the point if you can stack shelves for the same money as you get if you learn all about something and work hard to get there.


If veterinary science is underpaid for the skills involved, it sounds like vets need to speak up and demand higher wages. If vets were paid minimum wage it doesn't indicate that minimum wage is too high - that should be judged by actual data about what a living wage ought to be - but it might indicate that vets' pay is too low.

As a more general comment, I feel you're basically saying "I want the underclass to be as poor as possible so they have a reason to try harder", which is the worst kind of backwards Tory logic. There will always be those who are richer and those who are poorer, but people don't have to be impoverished to aspire; and since living in poverty is usually associated with a lack of achievement it clearly doesn't work as a motivation strategy.


I dont mean to sound that way, and I dont mean it that way at all, the issue is that the world doesn't work that way. When the minimum goes up employers only up the pay of those it has to, there needs to be more in place to ensure ALL benefit and pay is generally fair based on the task being done. Otherwise it is just a matter of time before everyone is on the minimum as companies dont maintain the gap between skilled and unskilled.

It is a gooseberry fool argument to try and making without sounding like a self centered banana split, however, the point is that yes people on low pay should be helped and the minimum should raise with inflation to ensure they dont get worse off as stuff costs more but so should everyone elses just because someone isn't on the minimum doesn't mean inflation doesn't impact them and by only focusing on the minimum it means the majority of people will end up there regardless of skill level.

User avatar
Hyperion
Member
Joined in 2009
Location: Beyond the wall

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hyperion » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:53 pm

I get what you're saying Errkal. The minimum wage increases, yet many people have been stuck on the same wage for years. Although they should, it doesn't appear that pay grades alter when the minimum increases. This continually erodes the difference and makes it seem like money spent on education and training was a wasted investment. That's not to say the minimum wage shouldn't be a real living wage, it should.

Image
Ad7 wrote:stop moaning about it
User avatar
BID0
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Essex

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by BID0 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:59 pm

Errkal wrote:
Karl wrote:
Errkal wrote:It isn't that mine don't go up, the issue I have with it is that it closes the gap between a job that requires no skill or training to do and a job that requires years of training, experience and stress etc.

It seems to me something like this would promote the idea of not bothering and whats the point if you can stack shelves for the same money as you get if you learn all about something and work hard to get there.


If veterinary science is underpaid for the skills involved, it sounds like vets need to speak up and demand higher wages. If vets were paid minimum wage it doesn't indicate that minimum wage is too high - that should be judged by actual data about what a living wage ought to be - but it might indicate that vets' pay is too low.

As a more general comment, I feel you're basically saying "I want the underclass to be as poor as possible so they have a reason to try harder", which is the worst kind of backwards Tory logic. There will always be those who are richer and those who are poorer, but people don't have to be impoverished to aspire; and since living in poverty is usually associated with a lack of achievement it clearly doesn't work as a motivation strategy.


I dont mean to sound that way, and I dont mean it that way at all, the issue is that the world doesn't work that way. When the minimum goes up employers only up the pay of those it has to, there needs to be more in place to ensure ALL benefit and pay is generally fair based on the task being done. Otherwise it is just a matter of time before everyone is on the minimum as companies dont maintain the gap between skilled and unskilled.

It is a gooseberry fool argument to try and making without sounding like a self centered banana split, however, the point is that yes people on low pay should be helped and the minimum should raise with inflation to ensure they dont get worse off as stuff costs more but so should everyone elses just because someone isn't on the minimum doesn't mean inflation doesn't impact them and by only focusing on the minimum it means the majority of people will end up there regardless of skill level.

It closes the gap between the poorest and the richest. Everyone in between also benefits too. Your wife's wage will increase, or she will be able to get a job in another Vets that pays better.


User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:17 pm

Hyperion wrote:I get what you're saying Errkal. The minimum wage increases, yet many people have been stuck on the same wage for years. Although they should, it doesn't appear that pay grades alter when the minimum increases. This continually erodes the difference and makes it seem like money spent on education and training was a wasted investment. That's not to say the minimum wage shouldn't be a real living wage, it should.


Exactly.

User avatar
Lagamorph
Member ♥
Joined in 2010

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lagamorph » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:59 pm

The problem for any government is that increasing the minimum wage is a very delicate balancing act. It's nice to say you'd whack it up all the way to £10/hour, but that's an increase of £2.50/hour and if done in one go that could potentially impact a lot of employers, especially smaller ones, leading to them having to reduce staff numbers in order to pay the rest of them. That ends up putting people out of work and making them worse off instead of better off.
I'm all for increasing the minimum wage but as I said, it's a balancing act and throwing out big, nice sounding numbers can potentially cause more harm than good. It'd be much better to go with smaller, but crucially above inflation, rises each year over a longer period than whacking it right up in one go.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
User avatar
Drumstick
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
AKA: Vampbuster

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Drumstick » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:26 pm

Not even worth debating because Labour are currently an irrelevance. Good on them though for actually putting something out there that could win a lot of those lost votes back.

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
Image Image
"economically unviable"
-Oblomov Boblomov
User avatar
captain red dog
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Bristol, UK

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by captain red dog » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:31 pm

Totally agree with the minimum wage increase. The Tory "living wage" was one of the most blatant cons I have ever seen and the mainstream media largely let them get away with it.

That said, work also needs to be done to tackle the stagnant wages we have had for some time now. That is an area I want to hear more from Labour on as despite being closer to the Corbyn wing of the party than the war crimes section, I think Corbyn doesn't have a clue there.

User avatar
That's not a growth
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by That's not a growth » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:15 pm

I would very much like it if a government could figure out and implement a policy that involved mandatory wage increases inline with inflation/ min wage rises so even if you get stuck in a job your spending power didn't go down.

User avatar
Meep
Member
Joined in 2010
Location: Belfast

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Meep » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:47 pm

The number of better paying jobs being created has shrunk as a proportion whilst the number of minimum/low paying jobs has ballooned quite dramatically since 2008. It's all very well talking about encouraging people to educate themselves but I know plenty of graduates with solid degrees making peanuts despite working their socks off. It doesn't help that a lot of work that was formerly adequately paid is now low paid (in part because so many people are now better educated). When the government decided to get half of all school leavers into university it was predictable that competition for traditionally middle-class work would rise massively.

In the current climate of diminishing social mobility and a proliferation of low paid work it then raising minimum wage is the next best thing to a properly working jobs market. The problem is that in order to increase the number of well paying jobs for qualified youngsters to move up and into we would need to boost productivity; which might actually end up reducing overall employment.

User avatar
Errkal
Social Sec.
Joined in 2011
Location: Hastings
Contact:

PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:00 am

That's not a growth wrote:I would very much like it if a government could figure out and implement a policy that involved mandatory wage increases inline with inflation/ min wage rises so even if you get stuck in a job your spending power didn't go down.


This seems like the fairest approach, a simple law to say wages have to increase by inflation, then all wages would including minimum no party need to make a single and dance about it and use it as a hey vote us we will give you more money.


Return to “Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests