The Politics Thread 3.0

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Eighthours
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PostThe Politics Thread 3.0
by Eighthours » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:41 pm

Preezy wrote:I actually think I don't like any policitician or political party. They all seem like right bellends.


But let's continue to discuss them anyway!

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Fries. Wedges. Crisps?
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Fries. Wedges. Crisps? » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:24 pm

Rename this thread and start a proper one? I'm no Conservative but even I can't see the use in taking Cameron's words out of context like that. He is clearly addressing extremism, and he's right - there's no legal basis for someone who lives in the UK, draws from our collective resources, and hates our very way of being and is happy to encourage others to destroy or damage it, to be restrained. But steps need to be taken to counter this kind of hate, because it is damaging.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Karl » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:33 pm

I've moved the funny pictures to the Pictures & GIFs thread.

In lieu of something else better to talk about, let's start off by [DISCUSSING] the point Dan raised above:

David Cameron was widely mocked for suggesting the security services should begin to police even those who 'obey the law,' but proponents say those with extreme 'anti-Western' views ought to be a valid target. Should the security services do more to curb extreme ideologies, or does this constitute a violation of freedom of speech?

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Lucien
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lucien » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:49 pm

Dan. wrote:Rename this thread and start a proper one? I'm no Conservative but even I can't see the use in taking Cameron's words out of context like that. He is clearly addressing extremism, and he's right - there's no legal basis for someone who lives in the UK, draws from our collective resources, and hates our very way of being and is happy to encourage others to destroy or damage it, to be restrained. But steps need to be taken to counter this kind of hate, because it is damaging.


We have hate speech laws.

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Meep
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Meep » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:09 pm

Policing culture is an affront to a free liberal society.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Rocsteady » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:40 pm

There is no context in which Cameron can say that and it does not come across authoritarian.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Karl » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:49 pm

I have deleted & edited some posts discussing the moderation of this topic. Further posts here about moderation will also be deleted - please use the Feedback forum instead.

Back on topic, please.

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Ironhide
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Ironhide » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:42 pm

Rocsteady wrote:There is no context in which Cameron can say that and it does not come across authoritarian.


It's a scary thought and I can imagine the Tories being secretly quite happy to let the country slowly become a police state with a wealthy ruling class and an empoverished working class.

The terrifying thing is most people already have the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" attitude, what happens when things like freedom of speech and the right to criticize government policies become the 'wrong' things?

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Prototype » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:10 pm

Ironhide wrote:The terrifying thing is most people already have the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" attitude, what happens when things like freedom of speech and the right to criticize government policies become the 'wrong' things?


Can't help but think of all the stuff I've read/watched by Glenn Greenwald when I read this.

I might not have anything to hide, but I certainly want to take a gooseberry fool with the bathroom door shut.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lotus » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:25 pm

Ironhide wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:There is no context in which Cameron can say that and it does not come across authoritarian.


It's a scary thought and I can imagine the Tories being secretly quite happy to let the country slowly become a police state with a wealthy ruling class and an empoverished working class.

The terrifying thing is most people already have the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" attitude, what happens when things like freedom of speech and the right to criticize government policies become the 'wrong' things?

I had a mate who had that attitude. I then asked him if I could read his text messages and look at his photos. "No, they're private" he said. There you go...

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Ironhide
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Ironhide » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:33 pm

I'm not opposed to a certain degree of surveillance by the police/MI5 to help keep the streets safe for the general public but there has to be a line drawn somewhere to prevent our basic civil rights being slowly eroded in the name of 'safety'.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:31 am

The Tories would need to actually fund the police service (no longer a force) if they want a police state.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:38 am

Ironhide wrote:I'm not opposed to a certain degree of surveillance by the police/MI5 to help keep the streets safe for the general public but there has to be a line drawn somewhere to prevent our basic civil rights being slowly eroded in the name of 'safety'.


That's pretty much where I stand on the issue. I don't mind CCTV on the streets as I have no expectation of privacy when I am walking down the road.

Phone calls/email/etc should not be snooped on for no reason. If the police have a decent suspicion that somebody is a wrong 'un and they can convince a judge of that, then it is fine to snoop.

All those people who say "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" are idiots. There are countless examples around the world and through history that prove that to be a load of bollocks.

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Skarjo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Skarjo » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:53 pm

Not only that but there's plenty of things that are not illegal but that no one other than the intended recipient has any right or justification to see.

See 99% of things sent via Snapchat.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Skarjo » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:53 pm

(Boobs, I mean boobs here).

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Meep
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Meep » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:15 pm

The most totalitarian thing being done by the current government is the latest bill on trade unions, which violates free assembly and speech laws. Also, generally leaders in democracies do not attempt to deliberately bankrupt their only opposition. It's considered rude.

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Tineash
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Tineash » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:18 pm

Tax credits got slashed today, too. Did anyone even notice?

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Moggy
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:03 pm

Skarjo wrote:(Boobs, I mean boobs here).


We know what you meant.

Skarjo :x

;)

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teh bork
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by teh bork » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:12 pm

Tineash wrote:Tax credits got slashed today, too. Did anyone even notice?


Who cares about a couple of million people losing money, we should be focused on some bloke not singing the national anthem.

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Meep
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread 3.0
by Meep » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:15 pm

It's easy, you just have to remember the first and the last verse and then sort of mumble the bit in between.


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