Karl wrote:Grumpy David wrote:KK wrote:The Guardian wrote:Sarah Champion distances herself from Sun article on British Pakistani men
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4218648/british-pakistani-men-raping-exploiting-white-girls/The full article from The Sun. I don't see how anyone could disagree with any of that.
She's not even wrong to highlight the uncomfortable truth. It's not the deliberately broad and vague term of Asian that includes Turkish men all the way to Japanese men (and clumps in Hindus and Sikhs who commit very few crimes and are probably the best integrated non European people) that is going around in rape gangs targeting white girls.
How are you supposed to solve a problem when you won't tackle the issue head on? Fear of being called racist/Islamophobic is allowing children to be raped.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/10/fear-called-racist-stops-people-reporting-child-sexual-exploitation/If the MP of Rotherham can't say there's a problem with Muslim rape gangs in this country, who the strawberry float can? Such messed up priorities.
Are there proportionally more rapists amongst the Muslim population compared to amongst other ethnic groups once adjusted to sample the same distribution of socioeconomic status, to the extent that it is statistically significant? Have we thoroughly investigated alternative models that might be more selective (can we exclude Muslims from certain regions, or who are nth generation immigrants for some value of n and above, or...?) and rejected them as less accurate explanations? That would be the condition for me to begin to accept there "is a problem with Muslim rape gangs in this country". Even then, it may or may not be helpful to actually frame the offences in that manner (does the increased awareness decrease the incidence rate enough to justify the increased Islamophobia?).
Shouting about "Muslim rape gangs" is an EDL-level statement so we should only go with it if we're absolutely sure about it. My instinct is always to reject any rhetoric that the dog-whistle racists in The Telegraph want me to internalise.
That being said I haven't been following this story super closely. I am sure you will let me know if my lefty instincts are off the mark on this one. But out of the available options I am happy to be thought of someone who is too-cautious about adopting a potentially racist worldview.
I don't think I'll find a sufficient level of statistical data to convince you to the level you require. You've set a very high burden of proof.
I believe that the government records crime and race but not sure about religious beliefs and crime.
As an example, this article in The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/nov/21/children-commissioner-defends-sex-abuse-report states:
The report identified 1,514 perpetrators, of which 43% were white and 33% were "Asian" (compared to 87% and 7% of the population). Which is definitely very high, but not every case recorded ethnicity of perpetrators, the article states almost 2/3 didn't record this. Of the 1/3, "Asian" accounts for a third. You can also rightfully argue "Asian could mean anyone from Turkey all the way to Japan".
Other data such as the prison population shows Muslims over represented behind bars whilst Hindus and Sikhs are under represented compared to their general UK population.
You can also argue that "the stats only show those who got caught, not the total amount of sexual crimes committed" but I find that a rather pointless deflection as absence of evidence doesn't imply a better attempt at getting away with a crime.
Socioeconomic factors might explain certain crimes like stealing food but it wouldn't explain raping children.
The Telegraph article is actually commenting on Champion's comments from years ago. I didn't know you considered The Telegraph in such disdain?
We probably can't be "absolutely sure" on British Pakistani Muslim men being more likely than men of other adjectives to form huge rape gangs specifically targeting white children. But it does seem to be happening on a scale that warrants further study since I know of no Hindu Indian rape gangs or Chinese Buddhist rape gangs in the UK and I'd like to prevent children from getting raped even if that means confirming the facts that might make you uncomfortable.
