The Politics Thread 3.0

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Rex Kramer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:53 am

Moggy wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:
KKLEIN wrote:Shows they're willing to listen, I guess. It's not like there's any opposition or an upcoming general election (that we know of) - opinion polls have them way out in front. He could have gotten away with it.

All they care about what The Mail and The Sun think. So much government policy seems to be set against a backdrop of running it through the shitty filters of Dacre and Murdoch.


This. Listening to people would be good, but this was clearly a U-turn based on the Tory party shitting itself over the reaction of the Sun and Mail. Which is silly, there is no way the Sun or the Mail are going to support Corbyn when the next election rolls around. :lol:

I don't necessarily want a chancellor who listens to people (particularly after the fact). I want a chancellor who has a clear, economic plan with enough foresight to determine what effect his proposed changes will have. This U-turn just smacks of a group of people desperately digging down the side of the sofa to scrape up enough loose change to get a 4 pack of stella. There is now an obvious hole in the nations finances and they've now got 6 months to find another method of indirect taxation to fill it.

My main concern was the Hammond (prior to the budget) seemed the only senior member of the cabinet with some actual common sense and pragmatism. That's shot to pieces now.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:25 am

I guess to be fair to Hammond, he has been somewhat hamstrung by Cameron/Osborne and their ridiculous pledges.

But he should have been intelligent enough to have realised that the storm of protest from the right wing newspapers was going to happen.
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captain red dog
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by captain red dog » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:08 am

I can't say I found the NI rise that controversial, but as usual anything that hits the middle class gets shot down.

Really this is just a rookie mistake like the pasty tax.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:15 am

captain red dog wrote:I can't say I found the NI rise that controversial, but as usual anything that hits the middle class gets shot down.

Really this is just a rookie mistake like the pasty tax.


It was controversial because they were stupid enough to put in their manifesto that they wouldn't raise income tax or NI. Then they made a big song and dance about bringing in a law stopping them raising income tax or NI. Then they realised there was a loophole in their own law for self-employed NI and seemed stunned when people called them out on using the loophole. :slol:

The previous Tory leadership were such a bunch of cowards that they ended up promising silly things that are now coming back to bite the party. And yet none of it really matters, other than slight embarrassment, as we have no opposition at the moment.
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captain red dog
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by captain red dog » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:03 am

I think that's why in surprised there was a U Turn as the Tories really had no pressure to do so.

I'm guess they are keen to prevent any divisions so that they can keep the troops in line later in the Parliament when some tough decisions will have to be made.
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Lotus
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lotus » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:19 am

While not feeling sorry for politicians at all in this situation, they can't really win. People complain about them not listening, and then when they do listen and react, they're criticised and mocked for...listening.
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Hexx
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:31 am

Terrible politics.

Rights or wrong the idea they given MPs a week to defend it (when some have) and the rowed back.

It makes you look weak to enemies (bet you Leavers will be calling for Hammond's head to get someone on board more "on message") and pisses off friends who tried to support you.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:32 am

Lotus wrote:While not feeling sorry for politicians at all in this situation, they can't really win. People complain about them not listening, and then when they do listen and react, they're criticised and mocked for...listening.


That’s not what really happened here though, they didn’t listen to people, they were scared of a few newspapers.

The Tory party announced in a manifesto that it would not raise NI and would legislate to stop themselves doing it.

The Tory party then noticed that their law didn’t stop them raising self employed NI and so announced they were raising it.

The Sun and the Daily Mail then went mental about it as a lot of their readers are self employed.

The Tory party shat itself and u-turned.

Labour meanwhile looked at everything with a confused look on its face.
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Lotus
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lotus » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:44 am

I don't read The Sun or the Daily Mail so don't really how they reacted, but would they really change tack based on what The Sun thinks, missing out on £500m in the process? Surely there are other reasons.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:47 am

What other reasons could there be? The Tories have been running scared of the right wing newspapers for a long time now.
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DML
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by DML » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:27 pm

Oh dear oh dear!

http://electionexpenses.co.uk

The Tories have cheated their way into power. Time to strawberry float off now.
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Errkal
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:58 pm

Thing is all they get is a fine, they stay in power.

gooseberry fool like that should trigger an election, if anyone has the money to just pay whatever the fine it is the goriest especially as they will make a mint in power by giving themselves and those like them a break.
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:01 pm

I'm amazed that the media are proclaiming the Dutch election as a failure for the far right party and victory for free Europe etc. The PVV got 20 seats, second behind the largest party who got 33 seats. The PVV are consider a far right party, they are not UKIP, they are much further right than UKIP but they are now the second largest party in holland. That's surely awful news. Can you imagine if a far right party in the uk become the second largest party? That would be considered a disaster for our country.
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lex-man
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by lex-man » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:08 am

The papers seem really bad with any kind of subtlety. Everything must be amazing or terrible.
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TigaSefi
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by TigaSefi » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:24 am

George Osborne's new job...... :slol: :slol: :slol: :slol:

Editor of London Evening Standard Newspaper
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KK
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by KK » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:56 am

BBC's Today programme has got the better of this deal (Sarah Sands, the former editor of the Standard, is new editor on Today).

This seems like a massive conflict of interest to me. It's a very influential paper too, in that like the Metro it's read by millions and millions of Londoners at some point throughout the week.

Rather amusingly comments have already been turned off on the website.
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by KK » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:05 pm

Going down A STORM on Twitter is this post:



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As is this, but for completely different reasons...

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Tineash
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Tineash » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:47 pm

KKLEIN wrote:


HOW CAN YOU HATE ED MILIBAND??
"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
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Meep
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Meep » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:32 pm

The manifesto pledge to not raise income tax or national insurance is kind of irresponsible. It really constrains how the government can raise money in time when services are under high demand.

What we really need is for people to recognise that automation and technology will continue to push down on lower and middle earnings whilst rewarding higher earners and that the tax system needs to be radically restructured to deal with this reality. The low tax economy we have seen in the last thirty or so years is not sustainable with current demographic changes and pressures. Sooner or later the state will have to start raising a lot more revenue than it currently does or else abolish most of the services it currently runs. We must campaign for them to do the former before they do the latter.
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TigaSefi
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by TigaSefi » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:40 pm

Meep wrote:The manifesto pledge to not raise income tax or national insurance is kind of irresponsible. It really constrains how the government can raise money in time when services are under high demand.

What we really need is for people to recognise that automation and technology will continue to push down on lower and middle earnings whilst rewarding higher earners and that the tax system needs to be radically restructured to deal with this reality. The low tax economy we have seen in the last thirty or so years is not sustainable with current demographic changes and pressures. Sooner or later the state will have to start raising a lot more revenue than it currently does or else abolish most of the services it currently runs. We must campaign for them to do the former before they do the latter.


Only time I have ever agreed with you. Can you tell this to the public as well? (Though on a side note, it would have looked better if NI was increased across the board not just self employed)
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