The Politics Thread 3.0

[That]

So in the worst case scenario - based on your assumptions, not current Labour policy - he would have the same 'hard Brexit' policy as May, right? But probably without the hatred of civil liberties and human rights, or wanting to dismantle the NHS, or being so thoroughly anti-immigrant.

So... they aren't just as bad as each other, then?

As for civil liberties, let's not forget that Corbyn did not oppose the Investigatory Powers Bill/Snoopers charter, he chose to abstain on it instead and had the rest of the Labour party do the same, ensuring that it went through with a mere 15 votes against. So you certainly can't call Corbyn a champion, or really even a supporter, of civil liberties.

Sure, okay? I'm not some kind of huge Corbyn fan, I don't think the sun shines out of his arse. But...
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10426/theresa_may/maidenhead/votes
...you're insane if you think they are "as bad as each other" when it comes to social issues and civil liberties. May is obviously a tonne worse.

I mean, even using your example, he abstained on mass surveillance and that for sure is bad, but it was May's pet project for the last decade and that's much worse.

[captain red dog]

As for civil liberties, let's not forget that Corbyn did not oppose the Investigatory Powers Bill/Snoopers charter, he chose to abstain on it instead and had the rest of the Labour party do the same, ensuring that it went through with a mere 15 votes against. So you certainly can't call Corbyn a champion, or really even a supporter, of civil liberties.

That's just ridiculous. The guy has spent his entire career fighting for civil liberties and has opposed countless terror legislation to much criticism. Criticise him all you like for wanting out of the EU, but his record on civil liberties is pretty concrete.

[Hypes]

I'm not sure if Laga's trying to justify his support to us or himself

[Lagamorph]

Support? For who? They're both terrible options for different reasons and I didn't support either of them at the election and don't support either of them now. They'd both want to plow ahead with Brexit no matter what, Corbyn moreso than May who is just capitulating to the Brexiters in her party to cling on to her position.
I'll admit I supported May for the leadership back during the contest, but so did many others here who hate her, simply because she seemed the best option at the time of who was in the running.

They're both as bad as each other, just for differing reasons. Corbyn will cripple the economy, May will cripple rights and liberties, and both will do what the other is doing to lesser extents.

[Lex-Man]

Nonsense.

You do realise that the government have lost three court cases on their treatment of the NHS. They only haven't been sued more because they changed the law to stop people being able to sue over the NHS.They also removed the law that said people were entitled to health care in this country.

[Moggy]

May is awful for people on the left, right and centre.

Corbyn is awful for people on the right and centre..

Both awful, Corbyn has the slight edge in that his wing still love him.

[Lagamorph]

May is awful for people on the left, right and centre.

Corbyn is awful for people on the right and centre..

Both awful, Corbyn has the slight edge in that his wing still love him.

Even that has seemed debatable at times outside of the far left during his leadership.

[Moggy]

May is awful for people on the left, right and centre.

Corbyn is awful for people on the right and centre..

Both awful, Corbyn has the slight edge in that his wing still love him.

Even that has seemed debatable at times outside of the far left during his leadership.

Has it? A lot of people assumed to be left are actually centrists. The actual left wing of the UK generally love him. Of course there will be exceptions, we are just talking in general, but there aren't many left wingers that don't support him or at least his policies.

I'm not sure that anybody on the right particularly supports May. Cameron quit, there were very few candidates for leader and even after she strawberry floated up the election there are very few challengers. She's basically a caretaker PM, stuck in there as the other Tories are either even weaker or waiting for Brexit to be completed.

Both May and Corbyn are appalling leaders, but Corbyn has a slight edge as there are people that support him, May just has people who think "meh, better than having Boris I guess".

[Lagamorph]

I'd say there are parts on the right who do like May. Not because of her own policies, but because it's clear she's relatively easy for them to control and manipulate, whereas Cameron tended to stand up to them (see Gay marriage). She's terrified of the Conservative party right and the right wing press, so she'll do whatever she has to in order to appease them.

[Moggy]

I'd say there are parts on the right who do like May. Not because of her own policies, but because it's clear she's relatively easy for them to control and manipulate, whereas Cameron tended to stand up to them (see Gay marriage). She's terrified of the Conservative party right and the right wing press, so she'll do whatever she has to in order to appease them.

That doesn't count as liking her.

[DML]

The bill that went through last night is terrifying. A parliament has just voted to disempower itself. What the actual holy hell?

[Hexx]

The bill that went through last night is terrifying. A parliament has just voted to disempower itself. What the actual holy hell?

[Squinty]

The bill that went through last night is terrifying. A parliament has just voted to disempower itself. What the actual holy hell?

Still got more phases. But it's not looking good.

[Moggy]

The bill that went through last night is terrifying. A parliament has just voted to disempower itself. What the actual holy hell?

When they said “taking back control” they meant a return to the days when we were ruled over by a monarch. The Queen is too old and Charles can’t be trusted so the PM is willing to make the sacrifice and take control.

It’s what we voted for, if you don’t like it then you CAN LEAVE.

[DML]

Basically this is what happened.

Leave won.

Tory party then by its own want asks for a mandate to do Brexit.

The electorate doesn't give them that mandate, showing some hesistation on the Tories in general (which should have been a slam dunk if they were...you know...competent)

The Tory party props up their party with some racists to give them a majority.

Pushes through a mandate.

None of that is anything to do with Leave. It is all to do with propping up this lame duck government.

[Garth]

[Moggy]

Basically this is what happened.

Leave won.

Tory party then by its own want asks for a mandate to do Brexit.

The electorate doesn't give them that mandate, showing some hesistation on the Tories in general (which should have been a slam dunk if they were...you know...competent)

The Tory party props up their party with some racists to give them a majority.

Pushes through a mandate.

None of that is anything to do with Leave. It is all to do with propping up this lame duck government.

Leave means Leave! We have taken back control and will not allow the EU dictatorship to tell us what to do anymore.

They need us more than we need them and so we will accept a lower standard of living in return for getting our blue passports back.

Henry VIII MADE THIS COUNTRY GREAT. It is time we took his powers back so that we CAN TAKE BACK CONTROL.

Stop being a Remoaner and embrace the beautiful direction this country is heading in. Freedom and a knighthood or peerage for that hero freedom fighter and all round man of the people Nigel Farage!

[DML]

I just struggle to see why people can't grasp why this isn't like a normal election.

You are talking about thousands of laws being undone, and something that has never been done before. There's multiple ways to do that, to just scream WILL OF THE PEOPLE will absolutely meaningless. There are good and bad ways to achieve things.

[Moggy]

I just struggle to see why people can't grasp why this isn't like a normal election.

You are talking about thousands of laws being undone, and something that has never been done before. There's multiple ways to do that, to just scream WILL OF THE PEOPLE will absolutely meaningless. There are good and bad ways to achieve things.

I am sure you realise I am not being serious but just in case I thought I would say.

I completely agree with you, but I am kind of resigned to this country going down the shitter. The people in the UK seem to want a Tory government that spends its time pissing off the other European nations. I am sure one day we will learn that we are no longer a big world power, but it’s going to take some shitty years to drum that into people.

That’s not to say I will not use my voice and my vote to try and improve things, but I suspect the country is moving rapidly away from where I would like it to be and I don't think there is much we can do about it.

[KK]

But we are a big world power. We're the 5th largest economy, the world leader in finance, with the 5th biggest military.