The Politics Thread 3.0

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lagamorph » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:19 pm

Nah. The fact that it's the Greens means that getting elected is too much for suspension of disbelief. Who's gonna buy a premise like that?

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BID0
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by BID0 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:02 pm

Karl wrote:This is a classic rom-com set-up. After every other candidate embarrasses and disgraces themselves, Bido is elected and has no idea what to do. But he faces an even greater challenge when he finds himself falling for a Tory councillor. (64% on Rotten Tomatoes.)

I was thinking this, knowing my luck I will actually win if I get picked to represent :fp: :lol: I have two jobs and am working on setting up two companies so I really don't have time to become a prime minister too.

I think I'm safe, it was the biggest pro brexit margin in this area I think and it's a heavily Tory.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by bear » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:13 am

FAO: Moggy


Good news mate, you might be getting a chance to vote for your head of state.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0313/859253-to-be-in-place-for-2025/

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:16 am

bear wrote:FAO: Moggy


Good news mate, you might be getting a chance to vote for your head of state.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0313/859253-to-be-in-place-for-2025/


Awesome. 8-)

Well it would be if the Irish embassy would hurry up with my paperwork. It's almost like they are really busy at the moment for some reason...

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Hexx
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:27 am

Here comes Indyref2!

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:30 am

Hexx wrote:Here comes Indyref2!


Assuming the SNP call a referendum and win by around 52%, I wonder how long the Tories current "will of the people!!" and "it's democracy!" chants will last? :lol:

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:43 am

Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:Here comes Indyref2!


Assuming the SNP call a referendum and win by around 52%, I wonder how long the Tories current "will of the people!!" and "it's democracy!" chants will last? :lol:


Given that May gave a speech about how unity is better than division and trading as a group is better than on your own to Scotland about the referendum without any care of how hypocritical it is I'm sure they wont give two gooseberry fools about saying one thing in Scotland and one in EU stuff.

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Hexx
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:44 am

Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:Here comes Indyref2!


Assuming the SNP call a referendum and win by around 52%, I wonder how long the Tories current "will of the people!!" and "it's democracy!" chants will last? :lol:


It's quite amusing watching Sturgeon ape the "how dare they not give us our demands - it was perfectly possible for them to [somehow] do it!" indignate language of leavers...

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:45 am

Errkal wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:Here comes Indyref2!


Assuming the SNP call a referendum and win by around 52%, I wonder how long the Tories current "will of the people!!" and "it's democracy!" chants will last? :lol:


Given that May gave a speech about how unity is better than division and trading as a group is better than on your own to Scotland about the referendum without any care of how hypocritical it is I'm sure they wont give two gooseberry fools about saying one thing in Scotland and one in EU stuff.


That's pretty much what I am expecting. :lol:

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:47 am

There we go - Indy2 once Brexit deal known (and...she makes it sound like Scotland could still somehow magically stay in the EU)

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:53 am

Hexx wrote:There we go - Indy2 once Brexit deal known (and...she makes it sound like Scotland could still somehow magically stay in the EU)


One of the main arguments against Scottish independence last time was that Scotland couldn't be in the EU if they left the UK. I'd imagine that they now have more chance of being in the EU outside of the UK than they would staying in the UK.

If I was Sturgeon, I would be licking the gooseberry fool out of Spain's arse at the moment and try and get them to commit to supporting Scottish EU entry. Tell them you would support their claims on Gibraltar and would veto any Catalonia entry in the future or something and see if you can do a deal.

She'll need to come up with some solution to Scottish finances as well. Just saying "meh, we have oil!!" wasn't enough last time and certainly wouldn't be this time.

I can see why leaving the UK would be attractive to Scotland at the moment either way though. We are facing the prospect of Tory control for at least the next 8 years and Scotland is famous for not exactly liking the English Tories.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:54 am

Unless she has done some mega deal (which is really doubt) it is going to be another referendum based on half truths and wild assumptions.

"They need our oil too much to not let us in!"
"Germany imports for IrnBru than anyone else"

etc. etc.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:55 am

While I think it unlikely, we could easily see a situation in 2020 where Scotland is independent, Ireland is united and England/Wales are going it alone in Europe.

Again I don’t think all of that will happen, but who would have thought that would be a possibility just a few years ago. We live in interesting times.

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Hexx
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:57 am

Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:There we go - Indy2 once Brexit deal known (and...she makes it sound like Scotland could still somehow magically stay in the EU)


One of the main arguments against Scottish independence last time was that Scotland couldn't be in the EU if they left the UK. I'd imagine that they now have more chance of being in the EU outside of the UK than they would staying in the UK.


Yeah but it's different now - the sequence of events would be

"Hard Brexit means we lose access to the EU and have no trade deal with them"

"We stay in the EU" (let's take it at face value despite being an...interesting...supposition"

"Oh gooseberry fool we're in the EU and don't have a trade deal with the UK, our biggest market"

Before magically staying in the EU mitigating the effects of leaving (until Brexit...but never mind).

Now it just compounds it...or confuses it further

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:59 am

Hexx wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:There we go - Indy2 once Brexit deal known (and...she makes it sound like Scotland could still somehow magically stay in the EU)


One of the main arguments against Scottish independence last time was that Scotland couldn't be in the EU if they left the UK. I'd imagine that they now have more chance of being in the EU outside of the UK than they would staying in the UK.


Yeah but it's different now - the sequence of events would be

"Hard Brexit means we lose access to the EU and have no trade deal with them"

"We stay in the EU" (let's take it at face value despite being an...interesting...supposition"

"Oh gooseberry fool we're in the EU and don't have a trade deal with the UK, our biggest market"

Before magically staying in the EU mitigating the effects of leaving (until Brexit...but never mind).

Now it just compounds it...or confuses it further


You say that but your arguments are easily countered with the following well thought out arguments:

"WILL OF DA PEOPLE!"
"THEY NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED THEM"
"strawberry float THE ENGLISH"
"OUT MEANS OUT!"
"FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!"

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Squinty
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Squinty » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:18 pm

Dat Sturgeon :wub:

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Cheeky Devlin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:23 pm

Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:There we go - Indy2 once Brexit deal known (and...she makes it sound like Scotland could still somehow magically stay in the EU)


One of the main arguments against Scottish independence last time was that Scotland couldn't be in the EU if they left the UK. I'd imagine that they now have more chance of being in the EU outside of the UK than they would staying in the UK.


Yeah but it's different now - the sequence of events would be

"Hard Brexit means we lose access to the EU and have no trade deal with them"

"We stay in the EU" (let's take it at face value despite being an...interesting...supposition"

"Oh gooseberry fool we're in the EU and don't have a trade deal with the UK, our biggest market"

Before magically staying in the EU mitigating the effects of leaving (until Brexit...but never mind).

Now it just compounds it...or confuses it further


You say that but your arguments are easily countered with the following well thought out arguments:

"WILL OF DA PEOPLE!"
"THEY NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED THEM"
"strawberry float THE ENGLISH"
"OUT MEANS OUT!"
"FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!"

I don't know how you got that leaked SNP strategy memo, but I'd keep it under your hat.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lagamorph » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:31 pm

Scotland will absolutely not be able to retain EU membership if it goes independent, it's a simple matter of EU law that prevents them from doing so. They would have to become a fully independent nation that would likely have to start out on WTO rules with everyone except the UK. Alec Salmond was told this repeatedly during the last referendum (By both the EU and independent experts) but he just did the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears whilst screaming "LALALALALALA"
The only way around that would be for every single EU country to agree to change the law in a damn short space of time.

Of course, this presumes that Westminster actually gives her permission to hold a referendum which is anything but certain with the talk coming from there recently.


I noticed this quote as well,
Ms Sturgeon had called for Scotland to be allowed to strike a special deal to stay in the single market, but she told reporters the UK government had "not moved even an inch".

Haven't the EU themselves already said that there was no chance in hell of this ever happening?

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by DML » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:36 pm

I just cannot understand how there are still so many Leavers. It makes me cry for humanity that so many will vote for something with no evidenceother than wishing really hard. We won't recover from this for decades.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by KK » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:38 pm

The gamble for Scotland is enormous. It's even bigger than the last referendum.

Imagine if you ended up in a situation where Scotland is both out of the EU and the UK (which on current terms as they exist today, it would have to be). Having to adopt the Euro too, which is a terrible currency (we really did have the best of both worlds there - Gordon Brown's finest hour). I mean rules can always be changed, but it's all maybes, possibilities, blind optimism and wishful thinking.

This irrational hatred of London and the EU from various people I find ridiculous. Yes, I am a Londoner and a Euro-sceptic Remainer but still...IT'S PROPPING YOU ALL UP YOU FOOLS.

I also don't think it's particularly wise to guarantee a Scottish referendum now for 2018 when the very future of the EU rests on what is coming this year from France and Germany. We are in unpredictable times.

I find the whole thing ridiculous to be honest, but hey we're in a world of people buggering up their own self-interests and then waking up in the morning wondering why they're even more worse off than they were before, so what's 1 more.

I agree though, Scotland is in a really terrible position and are at the most risk of losing out all over the place. The SNP won't be honest about the ramifications about leaving the UK, they weren't the last time. It'll be the exact same bollocks as the last 2 referendums with lashings of a WE CAN DO THIS! attitude & romancing of the positives against the negatives.

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