Moggy wrote:Absolutely, Denster is no different to anybody else that sticks by one party no matter what.
Generations of people only vote Labour based on generation old grievances or because their father did. It's sad, people being so tribal to one party no matter what is crazy.
Personally I am not a fan of any one party. Usually I vote Lib Dem based on a mix of a dislike of Labour/Tory and liking some of their policies. Last time I voted Labour due to Clegg's record in government. This time I am torn between going back to the Lib Dems (due to Brexit) or sticking with the Labour MP that I have (because she is decent, even if I dislike Corbyn). I'm tempted by the Greens as well, but have reservations on just how practical their policies are.
Completely agree, people should really try and make their own decision and the party you vote for should be a fluid decision, based on their own policies, leadership etc. Of course one party may more commonly side with your views than another but factors should always be able to change that (As you've said with you changing between Lib Dems/Labour).
Truthfully I struggle to find any one party or leader that resonates with me at present, I need to have a proper read through the manifestos and see who I most closely align with. Similar to you I dislike Corbyn but we have a good Labour MP in my area and locally Labour tend to win by a resounding majority
Preezy wrote:This. People don't engage with people that they disagree with anymore. Everyone seems to prefer their own echo-chambers. The left labels the right as facist and racist, the right labels the left as socialist PC snowflakes. These views just get endless amounts of concrete poured on top of them by each side only paying attention to its own media, so the views become more and more entrenched and some of the concrete has rebar in it which makes it doubly strong, although be careful not to get impaled on a piece of it because it really hurts.
What I'm trying to say is that both sides need to listen to each other and engage more rather than just play identity politics, and also that concrete rebar is a potential health hazard if you're walking on wasteground and there's a rusty spike of it sticking out the ground.
Couldn't agree more, ultimately we're voting for what is the best for the future of this country and the people living in it, what should be a balanced debate often turns into a barrage of abuse. Unfortunately that is often the example the leaders seem to set, I'm all for debate about issues but even they seem to resort to personal attacks or bringing up the distant past.
OrangeRakoon wrote:"the immigrants are taking our jobs!" may be factually incorrect when you look at the statistics, but that belief is a reaction to the real issue of people not having jobs, or not having a job that sufficiently supports them. Solve the latter and the former will largely disappear.
Engagement should be on two levels - redirecting people's anger away from scapegoats towards the actual issues, and solving those underlying issues.
One difficulty is that telling someone they are wrong is rarely going to change their mind. Just throwing out facts and figures showing that immigrants aren't taking people's jobs is counter-productive in that it just makes people less receptive to facts and figures (and hence so-called experts). I think when people talk about the need for more engagement with the disenfranchised, they mean that we need to stop alienating them in this way.
'The Immigrants taking our jobs' argument is one which has often infuriated me. I used to work in Hospitality management, an industry fairly well known for employing a high amount of immigrants, particularly from Eastern Europe. We had a high turnover of staff and jobs were therefore coming up on an almost weekly basis, most typically for cleaners but also for waiting staff. Maybe not the most highly paying or sought after jobs, but a job nonetheless. The hotel I worked for was based in an area renowned for having one of highest unemployment rates in the region, a large proportion of these unemployed were British. However despite this when we advertised a jobs we scarcely received any English applicants.
Technically the immigrants were taking their jobs but partly because they weren't applying for them. Whether that reason was that they couldn't be arsed, or simply didn't know how to find about the jobs is something I don't know and wouldn't like to speculate on.