The Politics Thread 3.0

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:08 am

Errkal wrote:That's because corbyn is a twat.


Yep. He has plenty of fans and to be fair to him he did very well at the election, but I don’t think he has enough support to win an election and he is unlikely to gain many more supporters as people just don’t like/trust him.

If he ever wins an election it will be because people have (finally!) woken up to how bad the Tories are, not because the majority like him much.

We really are in a shitty situation, both major parties are being ran by a group of absolute incompetent twats.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:17 am

Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:That's because corbyn is a twat.


Yep. He has plenty of fans and to be fair to him he did very well at the election, but I don’t think he has enough support to win an election and he is unlikely to gain many more supporters as people just don’t like/trust him.

If he ever wins an election it will be because people have (finally!) woken up to how bad the Tories are, not because the majority like him much.

We really are in a shitty situation, both major parties are being ran by a group of absolute incompetent twats.

I don't believe this is true, the situation now is such that the middle ground would normally be jumping ship. And they aren't. The only way Corbyn is winning an election is if the situation got so much worse that even Michael Foot could have won. Personally, I'd rather not have to wait until that point before we get any opposition.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:25 am

Rex Kramer wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:That's because corbyn is a twat.


Yep. He has plenty of fans and to be fair to him he did very well at the election, but I don’t think he has enough support to win an election and he is unlikely to gain many more supporters as people just don’t like/trust him.

If he ever wins an election it will be because people have (finally!) woken up to how bad the Tories are, not because the majority like him much.

We really are in a shitty situation, both major parties are being ran by a group of absolute incompetent twats.

I don't believe this is true, the situation now is such that the middle ground would normally be jumping ship. And they aren't. The only way Corbyn is winning an election is if the situation got so much worse that even Michael Foot could have won. Personally, I'd rather not have to wait until that point before we get any opposition.


That’s what I am saying though. Corbyn will only win an election because the Tories have pushed people away, not because he has appealed to the majority. Other than the Cobynites (I hate that phrase :x ) people voted Labour last year in spite of Corbyn, not because of him.

The next election is in 2022, I would imagine Theresa May will be kicked out in 2020/early 2021, which will give the Tories the opportunity to get somebody more appealing in, while also laying the blame for the Brexit disaster at the feet of May. With Corbyn putting people off of Labour and perceived change in the Tory part, I think the Tories will probably succeed in hanging on until 2027, Corbyn will be 78 then, even if he survives election defeat in 2022, he is going to be far too old by 2027.

Corbyn winning an election is never going to happen. And we will not have an effective opposition until Labour party members realise that.

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more heat than light
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by more heat than light » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:40 am

Moggy wrote:The next election is in 2022, I would imagine Theresa May will be kicked out in 2020/early 2021, which will give the Tories the opportunity to get somebody more appealing in


There aren't any more appealing Tories though. Say what you like abound Cameron but he had definite charm when public speaking and appealed to the centre ground. Every Conservative MP left with any chance of leading the party is a nasty right wing banana split.

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Errkal
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:42 am

They aren't going to change sadly.

Local members are very very lefty and corbyn is like some sort of labour jesus.

There are people that have been shunned by the other members within the Hastings party because they didn't vote corbyn it's insane.

They see this as a way to take Labour back to the left which they have wanted for years and they won't let that go.

At this point the conservatives have the power until he dies and people see sense or another party rises up to represent the normal person.

It's depressing.

Right now I don't know what I'm going to do next election I've always been labour and was a member but corbyn as pissed me right off I don't want a vote towards him and have canned my membership.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:47 am

myrrh heat than light wrote:
Moggy wrote:The next election is in 2022, I would imagine Theresa May will be kicked out in 2020/early 2021, which will give the Tories the opportunity to get somebody more appealing in


There aren't any more appealing Tories though. Say what you like abound Cameron but he had definite charm when public speaking and appealed to the centre ground. Every Conservative MP left with any chance of leading the party is a nasty right wing banana split.


Not appealing to us maybe, but they can certainly find somebody who will appeal (or at least look more competent!) more than May does. And being up against Corbyn will make that far easier.

With the Brexit fallout a nasty right wing banana split may well be just what the country is looking for in a few years....

Predicting what’s going to happen is impossible though, 2 or 3 years is a bloody long time in politics at the moment. Who in early 2015 would have predicted all of this?

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Lagamorph » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:53 am

The Lib dems need to give themselves a massive overhaul/re-brand.
Or the pro-EU MPs from Labour/Conservatives need to come together and form a new party that ends up absorbing the lib dems.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:56 am

Errkal wrote:They see this as a way to take Labour back to the left which they have wanted for years and they won't let that go.


I am a centrist when it comes to politics, but taking Labour back to the left wouldn’t be such a disaster if they had a decent and competent leader who looked like he could change the country rather than just somebody who wants to go back to the 70s.

Corbyn (and his friends McDonnell and Abbott) doesn’t appeal to the centre or to the right wing and he is never going to be able to turn that around. As I said, he might win an election one day but that will be because of a complete Tory collapse, not because he has managed to appeal to the country as a whole.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Errkal » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:12 am

Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:They see this as a way to take Labour back to the left which they have wanted for years and they won't let that go.


I am a centrist when it comes to politics, but taking Labour back to the left wouldn’t be such a disaster if they had a decent and competent leader who looked like he could change the country rather than just somebody who wants to go back to the 70s.

Corbyn (and his friends McDonnell and Abbott) doesn’t appeal to the centre or to the right wing and he is never going to be able to turn that around. As I said, he might win an election one day but that will be because of a complete Tory collapse, not because he has managed to appeal to the country as a whole.


I agree however they will cling to him as he is the first person for ages to do it and so he is the savoir. It doesn't matter he is a useless arse because he is a way for them to get to the left and therefor all transgressions seem to be forgotten.

When he does a rally in town or something people go nuts to get a ticket to hear him talk it is like he is mandela or some gooseberry fool to them.

It is very very strange times and I can't see him softening while the "grassroots" are so enamoured with him and shush anyone that says otherwise, and if he leaves they will find a corbynista like him that can "continue has work".

Right now for me Labour are finished I can't vote for them while they are in this Corbyn love fest so yeah I guess I'll be voting lib dem next time round.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 am

Errkal wrote:Right now for me Labour are finished I can't vote for them while they are in this Corbyn love fest so yeah I guess I'll be voting lib dem next time round.


I thought that at the last election but ended up voting Labour (for only the second time in my entire life!) in spite of Corbyn not because of him. For me the Tory party is a shambles, my local Labour MP is decent and there was no way of the Lib Dems winning. All thanks to our shitty political system, I am forced to vote for a party I disagree with as a blocking measure against a party I disagree with more. :fp:

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by lex-man » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:35 am

I think my problem with Corbyn is more that he seems pretty incompetent rather than his views being bad. I'm not really against making the trains public again but the Labour Party seems incredibly quiet at a national level. They're are doing nothing to hold the Tories to account. If somebody like Blair was Labour leader he'd be making the Tories look like a bunch of idiots. Not that I want Blair back either.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 am

lex-man wrote:I think my problem with Corbyn is more that he seems pretty incompetent rather than his views being bad. I'm not really against making the trains public again but the Labour Party seems incredibly quiet at a national level. They're are doing nothing to hold the Tories to account. If somebody like Blair was Labour leader he'd be making the Tories look like a bunch of idiots. Not that I want Blair back either.


I agree with that, I think Corbyn means well but he’s a bumbling fool who is stuck in the past. He is doing real harm to this country though as we are stuck with an incompetent government and a useless opposition. Blair would be making mincemeat of the current lot but then he’d also probably be planning to invade somewhere. ;)

I guess somebody being of the “wing” that you like is not always a guarantee for getting what you want. Corbyn is a lefty but useless, Blair was a centrist but evil. Merge the two (Corbyn’s conscience with Blair’s political savvy) and you might get a decent leader (or more likely you’d get Corbyn’s uselessness with Blair’s penchant for mass murder).

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Rocsteady » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:12 am

It's harder to commit mass murder if you're utterly incompetent at least.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Knoyleo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:15 am

Moggy wrote: people voted Labour last year in spite of Corbyn, not because of him.

:simper:

Nice projection.

I voted for Labour because of Corbyn, and so did plenty of others.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:16 am

Rocksleddy wrote:It's harder to commit mass murder if you're utterly incompetent at least.


True. :lol:

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:17 am

Knoyleo wrote:
Moggy wrote: people voted Labour last year in spite of Corbyn, not because of him.

:simper:

Nice projection.

I voted for Labour because of Corbyn, and so did plenty of others.

Serious question, would you usually vote Labour?

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:18 am

Knoyleo wrote:
Moggy wrote: people voted Labour last year in spite of Corbyn, not because of him.

:simper:

Nice projection.

I voted for Labour because of Corbyn, and so did plenty of others.


Whereas I voted Labour to stop the Tories not because of Corbyn.

There is no projection there, Corbyn has his fans, of course he does, but he didn’t win over vast swathes of the UK. People were sick of the Tories/May and voted accordingly as they saw Corbyn as the lesser evil.

With a decent leader, Labour would be in power right now. Although with a decent leader in charge of Labour, I doubt May would have ever called the snap election.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Preezy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:20 am

I don't think I'd label Tony Blair as evil, that's a bit strong. Does that opinion come from the Iraq War?

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Moggy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:23 am

Preezy wrote:I don't think I'd label Tony Blair as evil, that's a bit strong. Does that opinion come from the Iraq War?


Other than Derren Brown, he is the closest thing to the devil that we have.

I guess calling Blair evil is a little strong, but then he was directly responsible for tens/hundreds of thousands of deaths so strawberry float him.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 3.0
by Hexx » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:24 am

The problem is that Corbynites are so sure of the inherent correctness (and it's obvious!) of their position there's little outreach, there's little attempt to "broad church"

They also did much better than expected at the last election - which has given them some undue sense of bravo. You have to remind people they lost (against one of the worst campaigns in living memory).

In the cult's eyes - they proved they haters wrong, therefore they won. Corbyn's also viewing himself as some sort of government in waiting - which the polls don't seem to reflect (I font think).

There's no real evidence or plan for Labor to do anything different/better at next election, and you can be damn sure the Tories won't let that clusterchuff happen again.


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