Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...

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Dangerblade
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PostDoes anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Dangerblade » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:21 pm

Abridged story: HMRC say I owe them £100 for filing a late tax return. I don't. I haven't been self-employed since 2011, and don't have to declare my earnings.

I'd like somebody that knows a bit about the subject to read my letter of appeal, so if anybody would like to help, please drop me a PM. It would be much appreciated. :)

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Green Gecko » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:29 pm

They can fine you for this stuff years after it happens, unfortunately. Eighthours is an accountant, maybe he can help.

On a similar note they think I owe them £550 in unpaid income tax because my employer didn't file my stuff properly, basically they think I was earning money under two companies which were the same company at the same time, or something retarded like that. Earnings are down as something like 5k more than I earnt, or could even possibly have earnt. :lol:

Don't even bother calling them, it will take at least 45 minutes to get through, if you get through at all. Write to them. As soon as it's mailed out, it's a done thing, the ball is in their park.

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Dangerblade
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Dangerblade » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:31 pm

I know. I'd understand if they were fining me for not declaring when I WAS self-employed, but I don't need to declare for the period they're trying to fine me for.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Green Gecko » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:35 pm

HRMC are trying to squeeze everyone for stupid stuff. My problem is due to about 20,000 wrong P800s being sent out last September according to some accounting news site, for which they've issued an official apology. But nope, they still send me threats now and then.

I have all my P60s and statements here, I'm not going to waste my time collating all that gooseberry fool until I have to. Just because their PAYE information is wrong. Why can't they contact my employer? I don't understand how this gooseberry fool is supposed to work, I pay my taxes expecting it to be handled for me. That's what they're for, right?

Yet aid tax evasion. Took £200 tax from my GF last month, in a brand new job (finally paid reasonably) because she was technically doing 2 jobs for 1 day, so applied tax code BR for BOTH jobs, including the better paid job, for which 29 days it was the only job. :fp:

Squeeze and ask questions later. It's a terrible department.

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mrspax
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PostDoes anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by mrspax » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:12 pm

Dangerblade wrote:I know. I'd understand if they were fining me for not declaring when I WAS self-employed, but I don't need to declare for the period they're trying to fine me for.


Edit: Apologies I misread your post.

I believe you do need to declare that you no longer have self employed earnings even if you go back on to PAYE. I got a tax return form a couple of times when I wasn't self employed.

The tax man sadly expects us all to be proactive on these things. They are basically challenging you to prove you didn't do any self employed work. The tax man loves to punish those that assume on matters of tax. It's horrid.

Did you tell them formally you were no longer self employed at the time? If not, that might be the trip up that gets you.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Green Gecko » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:22 pm

I think what he's saying is HRMC have fined him for missing a self-assessment deadline for a period where he wasn't even registered as self-employed anymore i.e. had ceased trading.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Green Gecko » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:23 pm

Yes, you do need to inform HRMC that you are no longer self employed and they might want proof that you haven't received any income from self employment for example bank statements. Ballache. This is because you can be both self employed AND enrolled on a PAYE tax deduction, which I am, for example.

If you didn't inform HRMC you were no longer trading or you did this outside of a given tax year then they will be wanting a self-assessment for the year where you were self-employed, even if it was only part of that year and you were also paying tax via PAYE. I.e. you still need to return a self assessment including any income from PAYE. It's literally all your earnings. Company directors do the same thing as they are employed by the company and also themselves.

Sadly they often check these things and backdate gooseberry fool by years because they want to claw as much tax and fines in as possible, meanwhile the top 1% deliberately avoid paying billions in tax on a routine, and that's perfectly legal. :roll: I wonder who the problem is, just those of us trying to make a living for ourselves and not rolling in dividends already...

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Pacman
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Pacman » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:17 pm

I know they are a bunch of banana splits. I hope this helped.

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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Poser » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:10 am

I don't know what's gone on with them this year, but I think they've lost the plot.

I ceased to be self-employed in August 2012. They asked me last year for a self-assessment for y/e April 2014. I called them and explained it wasn't necessary. They asked a load of questions, and then agreed with me that I wouldn't need to self-assess. Luckily I took a reference number for this conversation, because they fined me for failing to do the self-assessment.

I whinged about this on Facebook and had several people saying they had the same problem. Thing is, I need to pay the fine anyway, for them to refund it, with interest. Is this really a sensible use of resources?

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Pacman
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Pacman » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:19 pm

Why do you need to pay the fine? Are you legally obliged to or are they just asking you to? If the latter you could just refuse to pay it and let them sort the matter out. Sounds like if it goes to court they don't have a leg to stand on?

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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Poser » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:28 pm

Pacman wrote:Why do you need to pay the fine? Are you legally obliged to or are they just asking you to? If the latter you could just refuse to pay it and let them sort the matter out. Sounds like if it goes to court they don't have a leg to stand on?


They say it's recommended - ie if you don't pay, and they over-rule your appeal, then you'll be liable for the late fine payments as well. :fp:

I'm 99% confident of a successful appeal, but I don't want to risk it.

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Pacman
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Pacman » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:30 pm

Poser wrote:
Pacman wrote:Why do you need to pay the fine? Are you legally obliged to or are they just asking you to? If the latter you could just refuse to pay it and let them sort the matter out. Sounds like if it goes to court they don't have a leg to stand on?


They say it's recommended - ie if you don't pay, and they over-rule your appeal, then you'll be liable for the late fine payments as well. :fp:

I'm 99% confident of a successful appeal, but I don't want to risk it.

Fair dos, no sense in risking it.

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Dangerblade
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Dangerblade » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:52 pm

Pretty much exactly what's happened to me, Poser.

I've paid the fine for now (so not to accrue interest whilst they're looking into it), done the bloody tax return and sent off my letter of appeal.

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mcjihge2
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by mcjihge2 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:32 am

Poser wrote: .................Thing is, I need to pay the fine anyway, for them to refund it, with interest. Is this really a sensible use of resources?


What rate of interest do they pay?

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mrspax
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PostDoes anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by mrspax » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:18 pm

Dangerblade wrote:Pretty much exactly what's happened to me, Poser.

I've paid the fine for now (so not to accrue interest whilst they're looking into it), done the bloody tax return and sent off my letter of appeal.


Did both you guys tell them that you were only on PAYE at the time though?

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Poser
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Poser » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:54 pm

Well, like I said...

Poser wrote:I don't know what's gone on with them this year, but I think they've lost the plot.

I ceased to be self-employed in August 2012. They asked me last year for a self-assessment for y/e April 2014. I called them and explained it wasn't necessary. They asked a load of questions, and then agreed with me that I wouldn't need to self-assess. Luckily I took a reference number for this conversation, because they fined me for failing to do the self-assessment.

I whinged about this on Facebook and had several people saying they had the same problem. Thing is, I need to pay the fine anyway, for them to refund it, with interest. Is this really a sensible use of resources?

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Poser
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Poser » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:54 pm

mcjihge2 wrote:
Poser wrote: .................Thing is, I need to pay the fine anyway, for them to refund it, with interest. Is this really a sensible use of resources?


What rate of interest do they pay?


This occurred to me, too. If it doesn't match my bank's, I won't be happy.

mrspax
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PostDoes anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by mrspax » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:22 am

Seems to me Poser that you have no case to answer then seeing as they confirmed there was no need to submit a tax return. Maybe talk to citizen's advice before handing over the cash.

The interest rate will likely be the interbank rate. Likely lower than what you would accrue in your own bank account. More reason not to cough up.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Eighthours » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:01 am

Accountant here! Poser should be able to resolve his situation as it's clearly HMRC's mistake. But Dangerblade, did you tell HMRC that you weren't self-employed any more? They're not mind readers, and it's not like a Limited Company where there is an official record that the business has been wound up if you stop trading. So unless you told HMRC on your previous tax return (there's a section on the Self Employment pages where you can put the date you stopped trading) or wrote to them about it, there is little likelihood that you will win an appeal, unfortunately.

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PostRe: Does anybody here know much about HMRC/Tax? Help needed...
by Poser » Thu May 21, 2015 1:40 pm

ProPoser wrote:I don't know what's gone on with them this year, but I think they've lost the plot.

I ceased to be self-employed in August 2012. They asked me last year for a self-assessment for y/e April 2014. I called them and explained it wasn't necessary. They asked a load of questions, and then agreed with me that I wouldn't need to self-assess. Luckily I took a reference number for this conversation, because they fined me for failing to do the self-assessment.

I whinged about this on Facebook and had several people saying they had the same problem. Thing is, I need to pay the fine anyway, for them to refund it, with interest. Is this really a sensible use of resources?


Update: I had a letter (AKA: the final straw) from HMRC, sent to my OLD address (their records have been updated with my new one), asking me to fill in a tax return for 14-15. Despite the fact I've appealed against the 13-14 self assessment request and subsequent fine, and told them twice (same conversation both times) that I don't need to self-assess.

So, I called them again. 40 minutes on hold. This time I actually spoke to someone who seemed to be useful and know his stuff. This appears to absolutely pot luck. Like the previous two people, he agreed with everything I was saying and I made him promise to get me something in writing.

Two week son, I got a letter confirming the SA requests had been with drawn, the fine overturned, and then the next day I got the cheque back. £100 fine returned, and £0.07 in interest :lol:


It's times like this you realise that there are probably loads of good people at HMRC, who basically spend their entire lives fighting against the archaic systems of their employer and the incompetency of their colleagues.


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