DOTA 2 and the Million Dollar Professional Gamers

There are 8 teams in the Main Event. None of them are out yet. The worst of these 8 teams goes home with OVER HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.

Also, to actually respond to Zartan's opening post:

[iup=3510710]Zartan[/iup] wrote:After watching and thoroughly enjoying Evo last weekend I can certainly see the appeal of watching computer games live, and personally I find it not really that different from watching a real sport. I think they will need to look at how USFIV is orgainsed next year, losing Daigo, and the 2013 champ Xian off stream is bad luck but perhaps they should of had more stream time. Much like community celebrities like Mike Ross, who finished an impressive 17th but had little stream time. Though with nearly 2,000 competitors you are always going to struggle.

I don't think it's so much Evo's fault as the games haven't been properly designed with spectating in mind. They need some sort of distributed in-client spectator feature where I can choose the match and watch it be played on my machine like Dota does, rather than watch a video of it be streamed.

The thing you're missing though, is that most fighting game players don't want the game to be an e-sport.

They like the community and the freedom of self run tournaments.

It's why for the most part, Capcom is merely 'helping' a lot of already established tournaments on it's Capcom Pro Tour series.
Evo for example is run by creators of Shoryuken.com, not any big company.

The only reason matches were missed at Evo was because there were 2000 entrants. Most Tournaments only have a few hundred at most and therefore you rarely miss anything important.

I put a bunch of hours into Dota it's insane how fun it is. My problem is I can barley keep up with the action most of the time especially in team fights. There is a lot of stuff to learn if you want to play properly.

[iup=3510881]Mogster[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510877]1cmanny1[/iup] wrote:I hate this F2P gooseberry fool. It ruins PC gaming, I hate this game so much.

Dota 2 is definitely F2P done right. It literally is free to play, with no restrictions whatsoever. The paid content is limited to cosmetic items, different announcers and stuff, and nothing that changes the gameplay in any way. It wouldn't be much of a sport if you could just pay for an advantage.

EDIT: Dblock, if you're being serious there's a short tutorial campaign that explains the basics and leads you into bot games, before team games vs bots and finally proper Dota 2. Play through that if you're not already.

Why wouldn't I be serious ?

I figured it out, I never use tutorial. It's for girls and noobs.

Normally I'd say just play it your way, but it's a team game so... good luck with that.

Dota 2 is great, but it's not the most intuitive thing ever and the tutorial teaches you the basic stuff. Go into a proper game without knowing about, say, last hitting and you'll quickly make yourself very unpopular.

I'm so out of practice. I was never any good at the game, but I've just finished a bot game on easy with six deaths. I think I'm going to try and get back into it after the International's over.

[iup=3510743]jiggles[/iup] wrote:The Open is on this weekend. The purse for this is bigger than that.

Let that sink in for a second.

Not bad, but there is also a card game happening at the moment where the winner gets $10,000,000 and doesn't have to share it with anyone. They are down to 9 players and the 'loser' gets over '$700,000

[iup=3510902]Fade[/iup] wrote:The thing you're missing though, is that most fighting game players don't want the game to be an e-sport.

They like the community and the freedom of self run tournaments.

It's why for the most part, Capcom is merely 'helping' a lot of already established tournaments on it's Capcom Pro Tour series.
Evo for example is run by creators of Shoryuken.com, not any big company.

The only reason matches were missed at Evo was because there were 2000 entrants. Most Tournaments only have a few hundred at most and therefore you rarely miss anything important.

I get that, but I think they could have a bit more about them when doing it. Certainly there were a few times where they were unsure of what game they had, which should not happen, also when they needed better back end support to let them know when something had happened rather than relying on Twitter rumours.


Also

[iup=3510994]satriales[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510743]jiggles[/iup] wrote:The Open is on this weekend. The purse for this is bigger than that.

Let that sink in for a second.

Not bad, but there is also a card game happening at the moment where the winner gets $10,000,000 and doesn't have to share it with anyone. They are down to 9 players and the 'loser' gets over '$700,000

Interesting, isn't that gambling though?

I don't get these Dota-style games. I think the nearest I've come to playing one was that Lord of the Rings one. It wasn't brilliant. What is the attraction of these kind of games? They just seem endlessly repetitive to me.

[iup=3511024]Zartan[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510994]satriales[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510743]jiggles[/iup] wrote:The Open is on this weekend. The purse for this is bigger than that.

Let that sink in for a second.

Not bad, but there is also a card game happening at the moment where the winner gets $10,000,000 and doesn't have to share it with anyone. They are down to 9 players and the 'loser' gets over '$700,000

Interesting, isn't that gambling though?

Mark Newhouse is one of those final 9, he reached the final 9 last year too. Both times beating 6-7000 players.
Definitely a skill game, but luck does play a part.

[iup=3511024]Zartan[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510994]satriales[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510743]jiggles[/iup] wrote:The Open is on this weekend. The purse for this is bigger than that.

Let that sink in for a second.

Not bad, but there is also a card game happening at the moment where the winner gets $10,000,000 and doesn't have to share it with anyone. They are down to 9 players and the 'loser' gets over '$700,000

Interesting, isn't that gambling though?

There's a lot more random chance in Dota than in poker, for poker doesn't have a random chance that a player will misplay if they're sitting on a slope, a random chance that someone will actually play a card or two points on the table where extra powerful cards appear intermittently

By putting all the money in the "esport" into a single big pot tournament (which is single elimination if I'm not mistaken) Dota's very much a case of gambling itself

[iup=3511071]Cal[/iup] wrote:I don't get these Dota-style games. I think the nearest I've come to playing one was that Lord of the Rings one. It wasn't brilliant. What is the attraction of these kind of games? They just seem endlessly repetitive to me.

Autism.

[iup=3511071]Cal[/iup] wrote:I don't get these Dota-style games. I think the nearest I've come to playing one was that Lord of the Rings one. It wasn't brilliant. What is the attraction of these kind of games? They just seem endlessly repetitive to me.

Most multiplayer games could be described as repetitive, and technically are I guess. The same goes for physical sport. Tennis for instance is just two or four people hitting a ball across a net for several hours, but obviously that's a very reductive way to describe it.

I can't speak for the LOTR moba, but there's more going on in a Dota 2 match than most multiplayer games. A match tends to have a number of distinct phases as heroes level up, requiring constantly changing tactics as they gain new skills and items. Teams transition from last hitting and levelling up to teaming up to take out enemy heroes, freeing up time to attack enemy towers and push forward. There's all the strategy of what skills to level up and when, along with what items to buy to help you in your role. Then of course you could be playing different roles in different games.

I'm speaking as a total novice at the game. I enjoy watching it more than playing it (because I'm terrible), but there's loads going on in a match no matter how good you are.

[iup=3511103]Irene Demova[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3511024]Zartan[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510994]satriales[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3510743]jiggles[/iup] wrote:The Open is on this weekend. The purse for this is bigger than that.

Let that sink in for a second.

Not bad, but there is also a card game happening at the moment where the winner gets $10,000,000 and doesn't have to share it with anyone. They are down to 9 players and the 'loser' gets over '$700,000

Interesting, isn't that gambling though?

There's a lot more random chance in Dota than in poker, for poker doesn't have a random chance that a player will misplay if they're sitting on a slope, a random chance that someone will actually play a card or two points on the table where extra powerful cards appear intermittently

By putting all the money in the "esport" into a single big pot tournament (which is single elimination if I'm not mistaken) Dota's very much a case of gambling itself

The International isn't the only big Dota 2 tournament, although it is by far the biggest.

As for gambling, having an element of randomness to a couple of aspects doesn't make it gambling at all. Getting your hands on the runes is a matter of maintaining vision, making sure you're in the right place at the right time and not dying in the process. The Aegis requires you to kill a massive creep to get it, and also not letting the other team jump in and steal it once he's down.

There's an easy way to avoid the problem with the slopes too. Don't fight on them! Forcing an opponent into unfavourable terrain isn't gambling, it's a tactic.

Poker's hardly "just" gambling either mind. There are a lot more tactics at play than most forms of gambling, and it's a lot more fun to watch or play than someone cranking a lever on a one armed bandit. It's much more about how you play the cards you're dealt than the cards themselves, although there's no getting away from the fact that you can win if you happen to be very lucky that day and get a run of great hands. Dota 2's skills and items aren't random at all.

The finals are double elimination, for what it's worth.

People who are sceptical really should give it a watch, they might be surprised.

Agreed. I thoroughly enjoyed the EVO highlights and I barely play any fighting games

Fighting games are different though. most matches last 2-4 minutes and the commentators do a pretty decent job of describing what's going on.
Not to mention it's very easy to see what's going on.

I tried watching a Dota match. 40 odd minutes of what felt like watching an MMO? No thanks.
Oh boy, that guy killed some cpu, oh boy that guy did some glowy thing

I've watched a few starcraft matches and even though I didn't understand them completely I did quite enjoy watching them.
Dota on the other hand. Oh god no.

[iup=3512496]Fade[/iup] wrote:Fighting games are different though. most matches last 2-4 minutes and the commentators do a pretty decent job of describing what's going on.
Not to mention it's very easy to see what's going on.

I tried watching a Dota match. 40 odd minutes of what felt like watching an MMO? No thanks.
Oh boy, that guy killed some cpu, oh boy that guy did some glowy thing

I've watched a few starcraft matches and even though I didn't understand them completely I did quite enjoy watching them.
Dota on the other hand. Oh god no.

This years International has a stream for newcomers that has been doing a good job of explaining what's going on. The final is on later, you should give it another go!

http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti_noob

[iup=3512496]Fade[/iup] wrote:the commentators do a pretty decent job of describing what's going on

Bullshit. You could watch every single Marvel match broadcast at Evo and still have no idea what's going on.

[iup=3512587]jiggles[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3512496]Fade[/iup] wrote:the commentators do a pretty decent job of describing what's going on

Bullshit. You could watch every single Marvel match broadcast at Evo and still have no idea what's going on.

Maybe. But it's still far more entertaining to watch.

Similarly. I had no idea what was going on in Blazblue but I still found it enjoyable.

I think it's fair to say that Dota 2 is harder to understand to start with, simply because there is a lot more going on than a beat 'em up or even an RTS. In an RTS, even if you don't know the intricacies it's easy to understand that one side is trying to blow up the other by building lots of tanks. In a beat 'em up, two people hit each other until one falls over.

That said, I don't think there's that much more of a hump to get into Dota. The goal is simple, just blow up the other side's ancient. On the way players level up by being near creeps when they die, and earn money by being getting the last hit on said creeps. Levelling up allows heroes to upgrade their abilities, while money is spent on items that improve stats and add their own abilities. At the same time the teams are trying to kill each other, earning loads of money while the victim loses money. Heroes that die respawn on a countdown, or they can buy themselves back by spending gold if they have enough. The ancient is protected by towers that get progressively tougher, and destroying those gets your entire team a load of cash. Finally, destroying the other side's barracks at the end of each lane allows extra strong creeps to spawn in that lane for your side. That's kind of all you need to know to start with.

It's the items that make things more complicated, but I don't think you need to know much about them to enjoy watching the game. You tend to find the same set of items being used in different games though, so you can quickly pick up what some of them do. The Black King Bar (BKB) for instance makes a hero immune to magic attacks for a few seconds when you use it, so that's obliviously quite popular. Wards are placed on the map to provide permanent vision over an area, and sentry wards also reveal invisible heroes. The Aegis of the Immortal is dropped by Roshan, the toughest creep on the map, and allows the holder to instantly respawn once when they die with no penalty. Roshan himself respawns on a timer after being killed, and will drop another Aegis when he's killed again.

Like physical sports though, different people like different things. I find Dota 2 and Starcraft 2 much more entertaining than SFIV for instance, but then I know a lot more about SC2 and Dota 2 than SFIV.