Eurovision

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Tafdolphin** » Mon May 14, 2018 3:40 pm

It was an awful song, but I like that it won precisely because it was so different. It was an overweight woman singing about harrassment from men while dressed like a Japanese Bjork...and it won Eurovision. It was far more interesting than some white Swedish dude ripping off Timberlake.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Tomous** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:08 pm

Frank wrote:I also don't think it helps that there's very little actual asian represenatation in the eurovision song contest.

This is true, they do seem to focus mainly on European representation

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Frank** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:10 pm

gooseberry fool yeah you're right there aren't any asian people in Europe. My bad.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Moggy** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:11 pm

Frank wrote:
Vermilion wrote:I hope the 'cultural appropriation' twitter bores never visit Volendam in Holland, as they have shops where tourists can get dressed up in traditional Dutch outfits and have their picture taken.

This is different because it's a shop in Holland, presumably run by Netherlanders. It's someone Dutch saying "hey guys, come and appreciate my culture". You can see how that's different from an Israeli woman turning up to make chicken noises while wearing a kimono backed by an army of lucky cats, right? Same with Moggy's tweet, really: "it's highly promoted there, and at any Japanese related event.". Yeah, if you're in Japan, at a Japanese event, by all means, wear a kimono and try and be respectful.

I don't understand why you can't have a discussion about this sort of thing, too. You're either "triggered", or you "detest the cultural appropriation bullshit that flies around online now". It's one extreme or the other, there's no middle ground. Isn't that kind of tedious in itself? There's no relaxed "guys this feels wrong", it's "FOR strawberry float'S SAKE SHUT UP WITH THE CULTURAL APPROPRIATION BULLSHIT THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THIS, I, AS A WHITE MAN, HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THIS WHATSOEVER SO PEOPLE SHOULD JUST SHUT UP AND ENJOY IT"

I also don't think it helps that there's very little actual asian represenatation in the eurovision song contest.

Also it was a dreadful song regardless of what she was wearing. Should have just dressed up like a chicken and buggered the lucky cats off.

I started off sensible, pointing out that the kimono originated in China. The Japanese “culturally appropriated” it.

I’ve also pointed out that cultures mixing is a good thing. Everything we enjoy comes from cultures mixing together and sharing/borrowing/plagiarising from others. Imagine modern music without American blues? English food without Asian/Caribbean influences?

A world where nobody appropriated culture from elsewhere would be sterile, dull and soulless. Or for added hyperbole it would be Nazi Germany, one culture only with everything else burnt.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Frank** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:20 pm

Cultures mixing is a good thing, but it's not what we're talking about. Your example and Verm's example were of cultures mixing, this isn't what Netta's just been doing at the Eurovision.

Netta turns up dressed as a Japanese woman (kimono, hair buns, etc) in front of a wall of lucky cats (were they Chinese or Japanese? What do the gold lucky cats mean? Nothing related to the song, that's for sure). The intention with that whole getup is to make Netta seem Japanese, not Israeli. Maybe cultural appropriation is the wrong term. Should we be calling it (cringe) yellowface? (which, as we're all aware, is pretty racist)

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Squinty** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:24 pm

DML wrote:
Squinty wrote:They might be too polite to say they are offended.

But we're meant to listen to Brits bang on about someone elses culture and how offended they are in their honour?

I was joking more about the stereotype of the Japanese being polite. I agree with the point you made, it is somewhat grating to have people finding offense where there shouldn't really be any.

Plus Rush wore Kimonos and they are the coolest mummy strawberry floaters ever.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Mini E** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:38 pm

Let's all be offended by the Israeli entry!

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Moggy** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:07 pm

Frank wrote:Cultures mixing is a good thing, but it's not what we're talking about. Your example and Verm's example were of cultures mixing, this isn't what Netta's just been doing at the Eurovision.

Netta turns up dressed as a Japanese woman (kimono, hair buns, etc) in front of a wall of lucky cats (were they Chinese or Japanese? What do the gold lucky cats mean? Nothing related to the song, that's for sure). The intention with that whole getup is to make Netta seem Japanese, not Israeli. Maybe cultural appropriation is the wrong term. Should we be calling it (cringe) yellowface? (which, as we're all aware, is pretty racist)

Yellowface would be racist, but I didn’t get that vibe from the Israel performance.

She wore a kimono and had lucky cats behind her. So what? If she had painted her face yellow, put in buck teeth and spoke in an “accent” then I’d agree with you.

You wanted a serious discussion on cultural appropriation, which is why I expanded my argument to include other things. I’ve seen all sorts of ridiculous arguments against cultural appropriation, things like Bruno Mars being guilty of it, a white kid with dreads being shouted at for it. It’s silly and only plays into the hands of the dangerous alt-right movement.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Frank** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:24 pm

Moggy wrote:Yellowface would be racist[...] She wore a kimono and had lucky cats behind her. So what?

I'm not sure what else I can say here. The first thing my (cantonese) girlfriend said when she saw it was "why is she pretending to be asian?". Obviously there's some barrier that means that you guys can't join the dots between "pretending to be asian" and "yellowface".

She might not be intending to cause offense but in a such a international stage it's pretty inappropriate to be dressing up like a country that you're not. The lucky cats have absolutely no relation to the song, so it's literally using asian imagery as a wacky prop. Hell, if it's a song full of toy metaphors, why not some actual toys rather than a wall of good luck charms?

I'd give it a pass if it was just the Kimono, she's a chunky woman and they're reasonably flattering outfits, but the kimono and the cats shows that it's clearly trying to pass her off as someone else. Were they worried people wouldn't like Israel?

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Moggy** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:38 pm

For somebody that wanted a serious discussion on cultural appropriation, you seem to be ignoring all other points and just focusing on Eurovision.

I disagree that it’s inappropriate to dress up as another nation - as long as it’s not mocking. And I don’t think Israel were, it looked more like she was a fan of that culture, not saying “tee hee, silly Asians!”.

I’m not sure what relevance your Cantonese girlfriend has on this. Not all Asians are the same, it’s like pulling out my (Jamaican heritage) wife as backup if we were arguing about Zimbabwe.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Frank** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:40 pm

That was more in response to the DML argument from earlier about white bois complaining about racism

(Also we're discussing the eurovision entry so of course I'm going to be talking about the eurovision entry)

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Rightey** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:41 pm

Don't worry guys, my wife tells me we can all dress up like Japanese people if we want, they just find it cringey and embarrasing but not offensive.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **That** » Mon May 14, 2018 6:33 pm

Rightey wrote:Don't worry guys, my wife tells me we can all dress up like Japanese people if we want, they just find it cringey and embarrasing but not offensive.

Yes! Finally!

I mean, umm.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **DML** » Mon May 14, 2018 7:40 pm

Frank wrote:
Moggy wrote:Yellowface would be racist[...] She wore a kimono and had lucky cats behind her. So what?

I'm not sure what else I can say here. The first thing my (cantonese) girlfriend said when she saw it was "why is she pretending to be asian?". Obviously there's some barrier that means that you guys can't join the dots between "pretending to be asian" and "yellowface".

She might not be intending to cause offense but in a such a international stage it's pretty inappropriate to be dressing up like a country that you're not. The lucky cats have absolutely no relation to the song, so it's literally using asian imagery as a wacky prop. Hell, if it's a song full of toy metaphors, why not some actual toys rather than a wall of good luck charms?

I'd give it a pass if it was just the Kimono, she's a chunky woman and they're reasonably flattering outfits, but the kimono and the cats shows that it's clearly trying to pass her off as someone else. Were they worried people wouldn't like Israel?

Isn't using imagery still celebrating that culture? Her song wasn't a piss take, it was a genuine pop song that had more watches on YouTube before the contest than any song in the last five years. This was a very popular song. You may not think the imagery matched the song, but who are you to say? Not your song, you don't get a say! An artist puts out what they want to!

I just don't know where in your world we are supposed to draw the line.

Nicki Minaj in Chun-Li. Katy Perry in Dark Horse. Are these offensive as well?

I mean the act couldn't be more proudly Israeli.

If I'm honest I think the majority of your outrage simply comes from not liking a pop song.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **That** » Mon May 14, 2018 8:22 pm

He doesn't sound very 'outraged' to me to be fair. He just thinks it was potentially inappropriate?

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Buffalo** » Mon May 14, 2018 8:27 pm

If there's anyone here who's going to like awful music, it's gonna be Frank.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Bleachyleachy** » Mon May 14, 2018 8:53 pm

Audiences react to Israel's Eurovision 2018 entry (colourised)

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Lex-Man** » Tue May 15, 2018 9:34 am

I quite liked that song. It was better than most of the sub par Timberlake stuff that made up 90% of the entries. It was also one of the few weirdly camp entries going.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Preezy** » Tue May 15, 2018 9:41 am

I wondered why the Eurovision thread had gone past 20 pages, who knew it was because of a heated debate about cultural appropriation :lol:

What a load of old guff.

PostRe: Eurovision 2018 by **Squinty** » Tue May 15, 2018 9:57 am

Bleachyleachy wrote:

Audiences react to Israel's Eurovision 2018 entry (colourised)

The Japanese. A great bunch of lads.

Eurovision

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