The Football Thread 2017-18

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Should the Title reflect Titles/cups on the same day?

Yes
37
54%
No
32
46%
 
Total votes: 69
jawafour
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by jawafour » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:59 pm

Moggy wrote:...And they haven’t looked like challenging for the title in well over a decade...

I don't massively disagree, Moggy, but I sometimes wonder if folk are a little harsh on Arsenal's league positions. It is often said that Arsenal haven't challenged in recent years but when you check the record:

2014: 4th
2015: 3rd
2016: 2nd
2017: 5th

Until last season, the club had improved three years on the bounce.

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darksideby182
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by darksideby182 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:02 pm

PES Fan wrote:Rodgers and Vieira are the favourites.

Tuchel seems to be off to PSG. Enrique seems to be the favourite for the Chelsea job.

Really hope it's not Rodgers , as for Vieira it's probably too soon for him. Not sure on the others but I'm sure the speculation will be rife from now it until someone is appointed.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Moggy » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...And they haven’t looked like challenging for the title in well over a decade...

I don't massively disagree, Moggy, but I sometimes wonder if folk are a little harsh on Arsenal's league positions. It is often said that Arsenal haven't challenged in recent years but when you check the record:

2014: 4th
2015: 3rd
2016: 2nd
2017: 5th

Until last season, the club had improved three years on the bounce.


But let’s look at the points difference.

2017: 1st place: 93 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2016: 1st place: 81 points – Arsenal: 71 points
2015: 1st place: 87 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2014: 1st place: 86 points – Arsenal: 79 points
2013: 1st place: 89 points – Arsenal: 73 points

There’s not much change between those seasons when you look at the points. And Arsenal have not been anywhere near winning the title.

bear
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Thread Title Poll added.
by bear » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:11 pm

Tomous wrote:
Hime wrote:
Photek wrote:
Moggy wrote:As a neutral, it is going to be fascinating to see what happens with Arsenal now. After Fergie left Man U, they went into a decline and are still nowhere near the team they were.

Arsenal are in a slightly different position as their standing has been slipping over the last few years whereas Fergie was still at the top, so will a new Arsenal man push them up or knock them further down?

Arsenal need a squad overhaul to get near the top 4 so it's a big job for the next manager.

They need a few players but a squad overhaul is a bit over the top.


To compete for the league they need a squad overhaul I think. To get back to top 4, 3-4 solid signings would probably do it.


I think it'll take two summers of solid transfer work to get Arsenal back really challenging for a top four spot, mainly because I expect
Tottenham and Liverpool to do good business again this summer. Liverpool got lucky last season because Arsenals summer 2016 transfers didn't band much to the team, I don't think Tottenham will have a similarly bad window this year. Man Utd and Man City are on a different level financially so they are almost certain to bring in two or three great players. Chelsea are awful hard to predict, they are probably going to change manager and the squad will be overhauled.

7256930752

PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by 7256930752 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...And they haven’t looked like challenging for the title in well over a decade...

I don't massively disagree, Moggy, but I sometimes wonder if folk are a little harsh on Arsenal's league positions. It is often said that Arsenal haven't challenged in recent years but when you check the record:

2014: 4th
2015: 3rd
2016: 2nd
2017: 5th

Until last season, the club had improved three years on the bounce.


But let’s look at the points difference.

2017: 1st place: 93 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2016: 1st place: 81 points – Arsenal: 71 points
2015: 1st place: 87 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2014: 1st place: 86 points – Arsenal: 79 points
2013: 1st place: 89 points – Arsenal: 73 points

There’s not much change between those seasons when you look at the points. And Arsenal have not been anywhere near winning the title.

I know it doesn't change anything but until last season we'd been in positions when we might compete and just completely bottled it. The wins over Leicester when they won the league and beating Chelsea 3-0 at home last season spring to mind.

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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Moggy » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:36 pm

Hime wrote:
Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...And they haven’t looked like challenging for the title in well over a decade...

I don't massively disagree, Moggy, but I sometimes wonder if folk are a little harsh on Arsenal's league positions. It is often said that Arsenal haven't challenged in recent years but when you check the record:

2014: 4th
2015: 3rd
2016: 2nd
2017: 5th

Until last season, the club had improved three years on the bounce.


But let’s look at the points difference.

2017: 1st place: 93 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2016: 1st place: 81 points – Arsenal: 71 points
2015: 1st place: 87 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2014: 1st place: 86 points – Arsenal: 79 points
2013: 1st place: 89 points – Arsenal: 73 points

There’s not much change between those seasons when you look at the points. And Arsenal have not been anywhere near winning the title.

I know it doesn't change anything but until last season we'd been in positions when we might compete and just completely bottled it. The wins over Leicester when they won the league and beating Chelsea 3-0 at home last season spring to mind.


The Leicester season was the one when Arsenal could (and should!) have won it. But then that goes for every single team in the Premier League. ;)

jawafour
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by jawafour » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:38 pm

Moggy wrote:...But let’s look at the points difference.

2017: 1st place: 93 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2016: 1st place: 81 points – Arsenal: 71 points
2015: 1st place: 87 points – Arsenal: 75 points
2014: 1st place: 86 points – Arsenal: 79 points
2013: 1st place: 89 points – Arsenal: 73 points

...


Sure, but the general perception that "Arsenal haven't challenged for a decade" is not really accurate. Let's look at Arsenal's record against the current top club.

2017: 1st place: 93 points – Arsenal: 75 points - Man City: 78 points
2016: 1st place: 81 points – Arsenal: 71 points - Man City: 66 points
2015: 1st place: 87 points – Arsenal: 75 points - Man City: 79 points
2014: 1st place: 86 points – Arsenal: 79 points - Man City: 86 points
2013: 1st place: 89 points – Arsenal: 73 points - Man City: 78 points

Across the past five seasons, City have earned a total of 14 points more than Arsenal. Pretty small margins, really. Don't get me wrong, Arsenal have been a little off the pace; but not by so much as many suggest.

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DML
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by DML » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:38 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...And they haven’t looked like challenging for the title in well over a decade...

I don't massively disagree, Moggy, but I sometimes wonder if folk are a little harsh on Arsenal's league positions. It is often said that Arsenal haven't challenged in recent years but when you check the record:

2014: 4th
2015: 3rd
2016: 2nd
2017: 5th

Until last season, the club had improved three years on the bounce.


Worth noting though that during the heydays they were basically guaranteed top two and now they struggle to make the Europa League. To suggest Arsenal are anywhere near challenging is ridiculous.

7256930752

PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by 7256930752 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:41 pm

DML wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...And they haven’t looked like challenging for the title in well over a decade...

I don't massively disagree, Moggy, but I sometimes wonder if folk are a little harsh on Arsenal's league positions. It is often said that Arsenal haven't challenged in recent years but when you check the record:

2014: 4th
2015: 3rd
2016: 2nd
2017: 5th

Until last season, the club had improved three years on the bounce.


Worth noting though that during the heydays they were basically guaranteed top two and now they struggle to make the Europa League. To suggest Arsenal are anywhere near challenging is ridiculous.

But it's just been demonstrated that it's not ridiculous, the last 2 seasons have been woeful but that's there's more to it than just the squad not being good enough.

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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Thread Title Poll added.
by PES Fan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:50 pm

bear wrote:
Tomous wrote:
Hime wrote:
Photek wrote:
Moggy wrote:As a neutral, it is going to be fascinating to see what happens with Arsenal now. After Fergie left Man U, they went into a decline and are still nowhere near the team they were.

Arsenal are in a slightly different position as their standing has been slipping over the last few years whereas Fergie was still at the top, so will a new Arsenal man push them up or knock them further down?

Arsenal need a squad overhaul to get near the top 4 so it's a big job for the next manager.

They need a few players but a squad overhaul is a bit over the top.


To compete for the league they need a squad overhaul I think. To get back to top 4, 3-4 solid signings would probably do it.


I think it'll take two summers of solid transfer work to get Arsenal back really challenging for a top four spot, mainly because I expect
Tottenham and Liverpool to do good business again this summer. Liverpool got lucky last season because Arsenals summer 2016 transfers didn't band much to the team, I don't think Tottenham will have a similarly bad window this year. Man Utd and Man City are on a different level financially so they are almost certain to bring in two or three great players. Chelsea are awful hard to predict, they are probably going to change manager and the squad will be overhauled.


I don’t see Chelsea overhauling unless they get big money for Hazard. Even then all the players they want will have their prices increased due to the Hazard money. Chelsea have signed about 5 or 6 average players in the last year, I don’t see how you can just shove them out the door.

Spurs are the ones that probably will be looking over their shoulder. Once Zidane leaves you expect Potch to be Madrids prime target. Then you have their star players wanting to win trophies and the wages that they offering is nowhere as big as other clubs. Aldweireld is the latest one to want out over wages. Dembele hasn’t agreed to a new contract. Spurs need to start winning stuff. They have a great chance with the FA Cup.

Eriksen, Alli and Kane won’t stick around forever. Especially when they see their good friend Walker earning more money and winning trophies too.

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Pancake
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Pancake » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:33 pm

Love him or hate him, the league will be worse without him, just like it is without Ferguson, and I used to loathe Ferguson! In hindsight the Fergie Vs Wenger era was wonderful.

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Mafro
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Mafro » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:52 pm

Pancake wrote:Love him or hate him, the league will be worse without him, just like it is without Ferguson, and I used to loathe Ferguson! In hindsight the Fergie Vs Wenger era was wonderful.

Speaking of which, there's a documentary on channel 5 on Monday at 10pm about the Fergie v Wenger rivalry https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ntary-feud

Shame there's nothing like that these days. It's boring as strawberry float now.

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Photek
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Photek » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:59 pm

I’m very happy Fergie is gone.

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Pancake
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Pancake » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:18 pm

Every story needs a villain and he was a great one. It hasn't been the same for me since he left, he gave me a reason to watch.

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Denster
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Denster » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:25 pm

Arsenal haven’t challenged for the title (as in still in with a shout in the last month of the season) since they last won it.

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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Denster » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:30 pm

He was a great manager and in a non Fergie era - would have added a few more pots. They came so close to their own treble in 2004. So close again to the CL in 2006. Very big what ifs if they’d procured those.

pjbetman
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Thread Title Poll added.
by pjbetman » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:11 pm

jawafour wrote:17 trophies in 22 seasons. With three league titles, seven FA Cups and seven Community Shields, it has been a period of success for the club not experienced since the 1930s. It's hard to imagine that anyone will last as long at a Premier League club in the future.


I always thought he'd won more than that. 3 leagues isn't great, considering he hasn't won it for about 10 years or more. He really went downhill pretty quick.

Last edited by pjbetman on Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Denster
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Denster » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:27 pm

Photek wrote:I’m very happy Fergie is gone.

It was time. He’d hurt you enough.

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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Thread Title Poll added.
by PES Fan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:44 pm

pjbetman wrote:
jawafour wrote:17 trophies in 22 seasons. With three league titles, seven FA Cups and seven Community Shields, it has been a period of success for the club not experienced since the 1930s. It's hard to imagine that anyone will last as long at a Premier League club in the future.


I always thought he'd won more than that. £ leagues isn't great, considering he hasn't won it for about 10 years or more. He really went downhill pretty quick.


You also have to remember Arsenal were going through a stadium change followed by the rise of Chelsea and City which hurt them the most. When Arsenal moved to the Emirates even teams like Villa were outspending them. I don’t think many managers would have guaranteed Arsenal champions league football during that period.

I think Arsenal went downhill in 2012. By that time the trio of Fabregas, Nasri and Van Persie went. The football wasn’t as great as it was in the first few years at the Emirates.

Despite not winning the league they always were second or third highest scorers in the league and the football was probably the best in the country. The difference was Chelsea and Man Utd had the defences to grind out results when everything was not going well. That was Wengers achilles heel. He could never build a defence. If he had the defence that he inherited between 2006-2012 they may have challenged for the league.

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: Football Thread 17/18 - Wenger to Leave Arsenal at end of Season.
by Dowbocop » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:49 pm

Glad all the circus is coming to a close to be honest. Whilst I'm ready for a change (and I was a very staunch Wenger fan far beyond many fans calling for change), my main wish is for us to give him the send off he deserves. I'd obviously love that to include the Europa League, but at the very least I hope we actually have a supportive atmosphere at the ground.

Thanks for everything Arsene, when you get your statue it will befit what you've done for us :wub:


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