Nerve agent in Salisbury

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Garth
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Garth » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:55 pm

Ironhide wrote:I don't know why but I can't see any of Garths posts in this thread.

Maybe a Twitter thing? My posts on that page contain tweets.

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Ironhide
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Ironhide » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:00 pm

Oddly, I can see everyone elses posts containing tweets.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Grumpy David » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:50 am

Myth busting: Why didn't the Skripals die on the spot?

I feel this will become another "but the jet fuel couldn't burn hot enough to melt steal beams, it must be the USA or Israel" bullshit conspiracy. Russians mastering the fake news to cause doubt.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Karl » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:58 am

A 'fun' and potentially more likely theory is that the Russians deliberately administered the nerve agent in a crap way so that they could then start anti-UK conspiracy theories about it.

I don't really believe that either, I think they probably just messed up and have tasked their propaganda machine with making the best of it.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by satriales » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:49 am

I don't get why they'd both touch the door handle when leaving the house? And also if it's slow acting then wouldn't there be more of a delay between them both becoming sick, and not at exactly the same time after leaving the restaurant?

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Squinty » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:53 am

Karl wrote:A 'fun' and potentially more likely theory is that the Russians deliberately administered the nerve agent in a crap way so that they could then start anti-UK conspiracy theories about it.

I don't really believe that either, I think they probably just messed up and have tasked their propaganda machine with making the best of it.


I think that's likely as well. The whole job seems like a complete botch.

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Ironhide
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Ironhide » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:44 pm

satriales wrote:I don't get why they'd both touch the door handle when leaving the house?


Maybe he couldn't remember locking the door and asked her to check.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Tragic Magic » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:40 am

Ironhide wrote:
satriales wrote:I don't get why they'd both touch the door handle when leaving the house?


Maybe he couldn't remember locking the door and asked her to check.


Yeah, there's nothing unusual about that tiny detail at all. But people love a conspiracy.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by satriales » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:52 am

Tragic Magic wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
satriales wrote:I don't get why they'd both touch the door handle when leaving the house?


Maybe he couldn't remember locking the door and asked her to check.


Yeah, there's nothing unusual about that tiny detail at all. But people love a conspiracy.

I wasn't suggesting it was a conspiracy.

Leaving the house is something you do everyday, I don't buy that one of them closed the door and then the other went back to check it was locked, but that doesn't mean I think it was a conspiracy, just that the real timeline of events hasn't been figured out yet (or at least made public). With them both now recovering the full picture will become clearer.

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Somebody Else's Problem
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Somebody Else's Problem » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:09 pm

Ironhide wrote:
satriales wrote:I don't get why they'd both touch the door handle when leaving the house?


Maybe he couldn't remember locking the door and asked her to check.


Or she pulled the door shut, but he had the key, and had to lift the handle to lock the door.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Moggy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:54 pm

Is it really that surprising that two people living in the same house would both touch the same door handle?

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Karl » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:21 pm

They could have also touched it at different times, but it only properly got into them when they later ate with their nerve-agenty-hands. There are a lot of possible explanations.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Lotus » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:55 pm

Ex-Soviet scientist on the news the other day was saying that it's possible to be exposed to a non-lethal dose; it's not just exposed = death (at least not immediately). Plus if it was put on the door handle it's probably been combined with some other kind of agent, like an adhesive, which would also compromise the potency of it. The touching the door handle thing could be explained in dozens of different ways.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by satriales » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:18 pm

Fair enough. I live in a house that doesn't even have a door handle and locks automatically so that might be why I find it harder to see that scenario.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Karl » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:20 pm

Obviously it's also possible that the timeline of events that's been pieced together is a bit off. I assume we will probably have a definitive answer in the coming days.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Grumpy David » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:55 am

Lotus wrote:Ex-Soviet scientist on the news the other day was saying that it's possible to be exposed to a non-lethal dose; it's not just exposed = death (at least not immediately). Plus if it was put on the door handle it's probably been combined with some other kind of agent, like an adhesive, which would also compromise the potency of it. The touching the door handle thing could be explained in dozens of different ways.


I think we saw the same news clip.

From memory, the chemical isn't as effective when just dropped onto bare skin compared to being inhaled or entering the blood stream which almost certainly causes a rapid death. At room temperature it's actually a liquid and less effective in this form compared to a gas being inhaled.

A tremendous amount of luck to collapse in a public place and top quality medical services no doubt helped too.

Plus "military grade" isn't a real standard and would vary massively depending on what country we refer to. If the chemical is 20+ years old and stored as a liquid, maybe it has degraded. Additionally, Russia could have deliberately weakened it and deliberately used it liquid form rather than gas due to the complexities of keeping it in gas form safely.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Preezy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:57 am

Remember in The Jackal when Bruce Willis sprays some nerve agent on the handle of his car boot, and the bad guy looking for him touches it and starts foaming at the mouth and then he dies and then Richard Gere does a weak Irish accent and saves the day. Amazing.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Grumpy David » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:56 pm

Nothing to see here Comrades. Clearly an accident like the man who shot himself in the head 4 times.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/novichok-scientist-hit-by-car-in-russia-61260

Russian Novichok Developer Hospitalized Following Car Accident.

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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Sergei Skripal improving rapidly
by Vermilion » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:00 pm

Grumpy David wrote:Nothing to see here Comrades. Clearly an accident like the man who shot himself in the head 4 times.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/novichok-scientist-hit-by-car-in-russia-61260

Russian Novichok Developer Hospitalized Following Car Accident.


Reminds me of that poor unfortunate voter from Dunny-on-the-Wold who accidentally brutally cut his head off while combing his hair.

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Garth
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PostRe: Nerve agent in Salisbury - Police charge 2 Russian passport holders with attempted murder
by Garth » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:23 am




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