General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How did you vote in the 2019 General Election?

Poll ended at Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:00 pm

0. Did you vote? (Select one.)
1
0%
   Yes   (Please answer the rest of the survey.)
95
20%
   No   (Please do not answer any further questions.)
4
1%
1. Which nation of the UK did you vote in? (Select one.)
1
0%
   Northern Ireland
2
0%
   Wales
10
2%
   Scotland
6
1%
   England
77
16%
2. In your opinion, did you vote in a marginal seat? (Select one.)
1
0%
   Yes — I think my seat is a close race
23
5%
   No — I think my seat is safe for one party
72
15%
3. In your opinion, did you vote tactically? (Select one.)
1
0%
   Yes — my first choice was the tactical option anyway
33
7%
   Yes — I changed my vote to the tactical option
22
5%
   No — I voted for a nontactical option (but in a safe seat)
33
7%
   No — I voted for a nontactical option (in a marginal)
8
2%
4. Who did you vote for? (Select one.)
1
0%
   [Leninist or Trotskyist party]   / People Before Profit
0
No votes
   Green
2
0%
   Scottish National (SNP)   / Plaid Cymru / Sinn Féin
5
1%
   Labour   / Social Democrats (SDLP)
78
16%
   Liberal Democrats   / Alliance / Change UK (TIG)
9
2%
   Conservatives   / Ulster Unionists (UUP)
3
1%
   Democratic Unionists (DUP)   / Traditional Unionists (TUV)
0
No votes
   Brexit   / UK Independence (UKIP) / British National (BNP)
0
No votes
   [Single-issue or local party]
0
No votes
   [Independent candidate]
0
No votes
   [Spoiled ballot]   / Monster Raving Loony Party
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 487
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KK
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by KK » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:29 pm

“The Dirty War On The NHS” (which was apparently temporarily shelved from airing last week for as yet undisclosed reasons) is a programme you may actually want to download the ITV Hub for.

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The ‘last bastion of true public service’, says Pilger, the NHS was designed to give millions of people ‘freedom from fear’. He explores how the NHS has been influenced by the insurance-based healthcare system in the US that denies medical treatment to millions.

Filmed in Britain and the United States, Pilger's compelling film, his 61st, gives voice to those who warn that time may be running out in the battle to save both the NHS and the fundamental human right to medical care.

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Moggy
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Moggy » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:30 am

twitter.com/DFire45/status/1206645442836140032



This Twitter thread is talking about America but a lot of it fits for the UK. We are strawberry floated on both sides of the pond.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Rex Kramer » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:49 am

There's really only one way to change things if you're not happy and that is get involved. I'm rapidly approaching 50, white and male which makes me a shoe-in for parliament in the next decade.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Rex Kramer » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:29 am

twitter.com/guardian/status/1207227951227506688



Yep, that'll certainly do it Tony. :fp:

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massimo
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by massimo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:44 am

Rex Kramer wrote:

twitter.com/guardian/status/1207227951227506688



Yep, that'll certainly do it Tony. :fp:

It would win my vote.

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That
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by That » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:51 am

I like it when Blair comments on stuff because you then know the correct answer is to do the opposite.

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BID0
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by BID0 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:57 am

:lol:

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Knoyleo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:59 am

Rex Kramer wrote:

twitter.com/guardian/status/1207227951227506688



Yep, that'll certainly do it Tony. :fp:

twitter.com/InternetHippo/status/881161169469403137


pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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Godzilla
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Godzilla » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:05 am

As many good ideas as Blair may have he will always fall down when you ask the question "did your actions lead to the deaths of 100,000 + Iraqis?" He still can't apologize for it or admit any fault as he knows he will be open to prosecution.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Rex Kramer » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:12 am

It's not important whether I agree with him or not as I'm not a Labour member and have no say in the direction they take their party. But his comments are more likely to entrench the existing position as to lead to a change of heart and that (in my opinion) doesn't bring them any closer to power.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Cuttooth » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:18 am

Things Can Only Get Marginally Better

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Hexx
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Hexx » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:24 am


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captain red dog
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by captain red dog » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:40 am

I don't really understand Blair. He told Labour to go for a second ref, and now he says Corbyn should have stuck to his pro Brexit views.

Blair chipping in has always been unpopular as it winds people up the wrong way and makes them want to go against him. If he wants to influence the party he should have stood for election and stood for leader. I think he'd be a bigger disaster than Corbyn at this point but I really wish Blair would just fade away and stop getting involved.

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That
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by That » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:43 am

I'm pleased to see Starmer acknowledging the importance of holding a genuine Labour philosophy, and that they can't go back to pitching themselves to the right of the Tories like "soft left" Ed Miliband and his team did on benefits.

The Blairites and "Blue Labour" (their own name) "conservative socialists" that want to return to tabloid-led policy frighten me because I remember the foundations for the hostile environment being laid by Blair when I was a teenager: all the fees and hoops to jump through in the Immigration Act, throwing away civil liberties after 7/7, the failure to stop or even acknowledge his war crimes even after they became apparent.

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by OrangeRKN » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:45 am

Blair always comes across as thinking himself entitled to set Labour's direction, like it's his party. It was never his party, the leader is not a dictator but a representative of the membership. If he's frustrated it's because the party has proven itself resilient to his personal vision.

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Moggy
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Moggy » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:51 am

Blair is a twat but that doesn’t make him always wrong.

The scale of the election defeat of Corbyn should be seen as a warning, not as a message that Labour should continue down the Corbynist path.

That’s not to say that Labour have to flip back to Blairism. But as much as Blairism was gooseberry fool, so was Corbynism. They need to find a different way that is palatable to the hard left as well as the soft left and centrists. Because otherwise Johnson will win again in 2024 and 2029.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Jenuall » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:53 am

I think it's very easy with Blair to project onto him a perspective and motivation that may not necessarily be there. He's a polarising figure both inside and outside of the party even to this day.

I don't get the impression that he's trying to set Labour's direction (whether he feels entitled to or not is a different matter!) more that he is just commenting on the current state of affairs and offering his opinion which is that the "Corbynism" iteration of the party is one that will continue to fail to get elected. In some ways he may be right about that and I don't think he should be banned from expressing that opinion - though it is hard to deny that for the most part his contributions to any debate these days tend to achieve little more than annoying everyone else involved.

Personally I would like to see Labour stick to a genuine left position and sell that idea on the obvious virtues it presents. Starmer sounds like he may be willing to go down that route which is promising. But within that I still have huge doubts that this is an approach that will achieve success any time soon - there are too many forces working against it, as well as too many idiots and arseholes out there who will continue to vote for right wing monsters regardless of the effect it has on them or society at large. :cry:

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That
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by That » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:19 am

I'm not sure there is a candidate who can appeal to everyone in Labour. Labour has "conservative socialists", progressive socialists, social democrats, neoliberals, and so on, as well as people with no fixed ideology that look towards attributes like personal charisma.

Those philosophies aren't just words, they mean things which are sometimes irreconcilable. Not to get too stuck on Blair but people present him as a neoliberal who just happened to do war crimes, like it was a coincidence. In fact he took the opportunity to do war crimes because he's a neoliberal and imperialism is part of that ideology. A progressive socialist wouldn't have killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq for no reason, but any neoliberal in Blair's shoes would have. The right of the party want the left to atone for losing this election - but I've never seen the right atone for its moral bankruptcy.

I don't think Labour is going to get a direct continuation of Corbyn even if Long-Bailey/Rayner win - they're left-progressive but don't have a history of radicalism like Corbyn nor are they as Marxist as McDonnell. They are likely to have a much more ideologically diverse shadow cabinet. It will just be the neoliberals and conservatives who get shut out - that's actually a good thing if you think Labour should have at least a basic set of inviolable principles, like "don't demonise immigrants" or "better welfare than the Tories" or "no war crimes".

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by OrangeRKN » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:21 am

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:Blair is a twat but that doesn’t make him always wrong.

The scale of the election defeat of Corbyn should be seen as a warning, not as a message that Labour should continue down the Corbynist path.

That’s not to say that Labour have to flip back to Blairism. But as much as Blairism was gooseberry fool, so was Corbynism. They need to find a different way that is palatable to the hard left as well as the soft left and centrists. Because otherwise Johnson will win again in 2024 and 2029.


The biggest cited reasons for Labour losing votes were a dislike of Corbyn himself, and Brexit policy. Other Labour policies polled well when put to people directly.

I don't get the argument at all that Labour went "too left wing". I think the biggest lessons to learn are in marketing and fighting propaganda.

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Moggy
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PostRe: General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results
by Moggy » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:27 am

OrangeXMS wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:Blair is a twat but that doesn’t make him always wrong.

The scale of the election defeat of Corbyn should be seen as a warning, not as a message that Labour should continue down the Corbynist path.

That’s not to say that Labour have to flip back to Blairism. But as much as Blairism was gooseberry fool, so was Corbynism. They need to find a different way that is palatable to the hard left as well as the soft left and centrists. Because otherwise Johnson will win again in 2024 and 2029.


The biggest cited reasons for Labour losing votes were a dislike of Corbyn himself, and Brexit policy. Other Labour policies polled well when put to people directly.

I don't get the argument at all that Labour went "too left wing". I think the biggest lessons to learn are in marketing and fighting propaganda.


The policies poll well but that doesn’t mean they lead to votes, especially with a figure like Corbyn at the top.

There’s plenty of evidence that a blind “taste test” of policies results in people supporting them. But media spin (“higher tax!” “they can’t do all of that!” etc) soon destroy the credibility if the leadership is disliked.

You’re right that marketing and fighting propaganda is key. I don’t see any Corbynite able to do that. They are too busy telling anybody that disagrees with them to “strawberry float off and vote Tory then!”. Unfortunately for us all, people took that advice.


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