General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results

Karl_ wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:But you just posted a meme saying that the centre left don't believe they can't make anything better, and now you're saying well sure they make things a bit better.

Also I don't think that a political movement is finished if it contains unpopular people. Also people didn't hate Clinton, she won the popular vote by a couple of million people.

1. No I didn't, you're confusing me with Knoyleo

I'm honestly pretty flattered.

Karl_ wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:But you just posted a meme saying that the centre left don't believe they can't make anything better, and now you're saying well sure they make things a bit better.

Also I don't think that a political movement is finished if it contains unpopular people. Also people didn't hate Clinton, she won the popular vote by a couple of million people.

1. No I didn't, you're confusing me with Knoyleo
2. There is obviously a difference between memes and people's considered stances anyway, so that's a silly gotcha
3. If neoliberalism isn't finished because of Blair and Clinton and Swinson being personally unpopular why is socialism finished because Corbyn is unpopular?
4. Tories have a minority of the popular vote here too, this discussion has been about WINNING ELECTIONS and REALPOLITIK but now you get to whinge about voting systems when it suits you?

1. Ok fair enough.
2. The meme is trying to make a point about the centre left so I don't really think there is much of a difference unless you're trying to say it's just a joke and we shouldn't read into it at all.
3. I don't believe that it is. I think they need to pull back a bit if they want to win an election and then try and stay in power while slowly bringing new policies rather than front load everything.
4. I personally think we should change the voting system and it is annoying that it only seems to crop up as an issue for 10 minutes after an election. I didn't really feel like I had been whinnging about the electoral system though.

Jenu-All I Want For Christmas wrote:The table has always been stacked against Labour to a certain extent but the situation has just grown worse over the years.

The media is more openly right wing, certainly to a far greater degree than it was in the past. I remember elections in the 90s (and it was the same before then) where you had openly "Labour supporting" newspapers, major newspapers - the very idea of that sounds ludicrous now.

The funding/donations gap between the parties is now astronomical - the amount of influence that the right can simply buy is staggering and something that the left cannot hope to match.

The left/centre votes are growing more and more scattered amongst a selection of parties whereas the right has essentially got a single horse to back.

The areas and demographics that would once have been staunch Labour supporters have lost all sense of their community and connection to the point where they now believe that a party which is actively out to hurt them is the best place to put their vote.

And so on. I genuinely do not know how it is possible to turn the tide at this point.

Quoting this so it's not stuck at the bottom of the page as it's good

Jenu-All I Want For Christmas wrote:The media is more openly right wing, certainly to a far greater degree than it was in the past. I remember elections in the 90s (and it was the same before then) where you had openly "Labour supporting" newspapers, major newspapers - the very idea of that sounds ludicrous now.

That only changed in 1997 when Blair turned Labour into a party that Murdoch didn’t hate. Or Murdoch realised that the Tories were done and wanted to back the winning side. It’s probably a mix of both.

In 1992 we had things like this:

In 1987 we had this (I can’t read the real voice of Labour but I bet it wasn’t good).

In 1983?

But we still have openly Labour supporting newspapers, the the Mirror:

Karl_ wrote:
Jenu-All I Want For Christmas wrote:The table has always been stacked against Labour to a certain extent but the situation has just grown worse over the years.

The media is more openly right wing, certainly to a far greater degree than it was in the past. I remember elections in the 90s (and it was the same before then) where you had openly "Labour supporting" newspapers, major newspapers - the very idea of that sounds ludicrous now.

The funding/donations gap between the parties is now astronomical - the amount of influence that the right can simply buy is staggering and something that the left cannot hope to match.

The left/centre votes are growing more and more scattered amongst a selection of parties whereas the right has essentially got a single horse to back.

The areas and demographics that would once have been staunch Labour supporters have lost all sense of their community and connection to the point where they now believe that a party which is actively out to hurt them is the best place to put their vote.

And so on. I genuinely do not know how it is possible to turn the tide at this point.

Quoting this so it's not stuck at the bottom of the page as it's good

The problem is it's hard to get people to pay for newspapers/ news coverage so it's difficult to create new large media organisations. So the most left wing papers are the Mirror and Guardian which hang centre left.

I guess there's the New European but that's more of a remain paper and I find it way too biased to be worth reading.

EDIT: I'd actually be interested in trying to start something new.

The Mirror has been the only consistent Labour backing paper, at least amongst the true "big guns" but back in the day you had a lot more mid-tier papers that were pro Labour as well as the likes of The Guardian, Independent and, as you say, occasionally The Sun.

Now there are very few papers left and those that remain are either blue or simply unclear on whether they back anyone . :dread:

Jenu-All I Want For Christmas wrote:The Mirror has been the only consistent Labour backing paper, at least amongst the true "big guns" but back in the day you had a lot more mid-tier papers that were pro Labour as well as the likes of The Guardian, Independent and, as you say, occasionally The Sun.

Now there are very few papers left and those that remain are either blue or simply unclear on whether they back anyone .

Back in the day means 1997 - 2010. The New Labour days. Before that the right wing papers hated Labour and the headlines were just as savage.

In five years time there might not be any newspapers left.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/18/boris-johnson-would-have-104-majority-boundary-change-plans/

Boris Johnson would have 104-seat majority under boundary change plans, exclusive study reveals

Boris Johnson would secure a 104-seat majority under proposed boundary changes that could be introduced before the next election, an exclusive analysis reveals.

The Conservatives would have twice as many seats as Labour under the reforms which were put forward by the Boundary Commissions in 2018 for a slimmed down 600-seat House of Commons.

The Tories would have 352 seats (just 13 down from their 365 seats in the new Parliament) compared to Labour’s 174 (down 29 seats on their current showing), with the SNP in third place on 47 (just two down).

Tories been wanting to do this since for a decade now and are finally in a position to reduce total MPs to 600 and aim for roughly the same amount of people per constituency.

Grumpy David wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/18/boris-johnson-would-have-104-majority-boundary-change-plans/

Boris Johnson would have 104-seat majority under boundary change plans, exclusive study reveals

Boris Johnson would secure a 104-seat majority under proposed boundary changes that could be introduced before the next election, an exclusive analysis reveals.

The Conservatives would have twice as many seats as Labour under the reforms which were put forward by the Boundary Commissions in 2018 for a slimmed down 600-seat House of Commons.

The Tories would have 352 seats (just 13 down from their 365 seats in the new Parliament) compared to Labour’s 174 (down 29 seats on their current showing), with the SNP in third place on 47 (just two down).

Tories been wanting to do this since for a decade now and are finally in a position to reduce total MPs to 600 and aim for roughly the same amount of people per constituency.

What great news, the Tories are going to make it easier for them to win!

If they wanted to make things fairer they would bring in PR instead of the FPTP horror show that we have.

"Equal people per constituency" doesn't matter if those constituencies are gerrymandered, which this new set clearly is.

It's straight out of the GOP playbook.

Older voters are more valuable because they are evenly distributed whereas younger voters have to concentrate themselves into cities and large towns for work. These changes won't address that and will just make that inequality worse.

Can we possibly have the UK Politics thread back and this locked now?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dundancies

Lab staff going on strike would be a pretty perfect end to Corbyn's disaster reign

FTPA Gone
Living Wage increase promised during election now conditional on economic performance (as they drive us off a cliff)
Strikes "that target commuters" to be banned
Workers rights? Going to be gutted.
Parliamentary involvement in the WA? Gone

strawberry float every berk who voted for this shower.

Boundary changes and voter ID as well.

It's the shock doctrine. Pull the country as far to the right as possible, as quickly as possible, knowing that by the next election the centrist urge to compromise and years of uncritical press will have normalised most of it.

I'm particularly scared for homeless people and travellers over the next year. We know Johnson wants to "deal with" those groups in a characteristically far-right way, and I just can't see there being enough people out on the street protesting or taking action to protect what the tabloids will call "dirty beggars and thieving gypsies".

Why 202X Will Be The Year Godking Boris Finally Pivots To The Centre

Hexx wrote:FTPA Gone
Living Wage increase promised during election now conditional on economic performance (as they drive us off a cliff)
Strikes "that target commuters" to be banned
Workers rights? Going to be gutted.
Parliamentary involvement in the WA? Gone

strawberry float every berk who voted for this shower.

So long as you spoke in a posh enough accent they would probably enjoy it.

I've come to the conclusion that Conservative are just massive perverts who get hard watching sobbing nurses and homeless people on TV.

Hexx wrote:Strikes "that target commuters" to be banned

That's amazing for London workers like myself! Lots of professions aren't allowed to go on strike and overpaid tube drivers are similar to landlords in having it too good for too long. Glad about that being corrected!

Unless your concern is the vagueness leading to a slippery slope?

love to celebrate the erosion of fundamental workers rights

General Election 2019: Exit Poll and Results

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