Resisting The Consensus: A Climate Change Thread

Our best bits.
User avatar
Cal
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostResisting The Consensus: A Climate Change Thread
by Cal » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:31 am

Global Warming and Climate Change in Perspective: Truths and Myths About Carbon Dioxide, Scientific Consensus, and Climate Models
by William Happer (February 28, 2009)
Statement to the U.S. Senate Environment and Public Works Committee by William Happer, Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University, made on February 25, 2009.

[EXTRACT]...I do not think there is a consensus about an impending climate crisis. I personally certainly don't believe we are facing a crisis unless we create one for ourselves... Many others, wiser than I am, share my view. The number of those with the courage to speak out is growing. There may be an illusion of consensus. Like the temperance movement one hundred years ago the climate-catastrophe movement has enlisted the mass media, the leadership of scientific societies, the trustees of charitable foundations, and many other influential people to their cause. Just as editorials used to fulminate about the slippery path to hell behind the tavern door, hysterical op-ed's lecture us today about the impending end of the planet and the need to stop climate change with bold political action. Many distinguished scientific journals now have editors who further the agenda of climate-change alarmism. Research papers with scientific findings contrary to the dogma of climate calamity are rejected by reviewers, many of whom fear that their research funding will be cut if any doubt is cast on the coming climate catastrophe. Speaking of the Romans, then invading Scotland in the year 83, the great Scottish chieftain Calgacus is quoted as saying "They make a desert and call it peace." If you have the power to stifle dissent, you can indeed create the illusion of peace or consensus. The Romans have made impressive inroads into climate science. Certainly, it is a bit unnerving to read statements of Dr. James Hansen in the Congressional Record that climate skeptics are guilty of "high crimes against humanity and nature."

Even elementary school teachers and writers of children's books are enlisted to terrify our children and to promote the idea of impending climate doom. Having observed the education of many children, including my own, I am not sure how effective the effort will be. Many children seem to do just the opposite of what they are taught. Nevertheless, children should not be force-fed propaganda, masquerading as science. Many of you may know that in 2007 a British Court ruled that if Al Gore's book, "An Inconvenient Truth," was used in public schools, the children had to be told of eleven particularly troubling inaccuracies. You can easily find a list of the inaccuracies on the internet, but I will mention one. The court ruled that it was not possible to attribute hurricane Katrina to CO2. Indeed, had we taken a few of the many billions of dollars we have been spending on climate change research and propaganda and fixed the dykes and pumps around the New Orleans, most of the damage from Hurricane Katrina could have been avoided.

In closing, let me say again that we should provide adequate support to the many brilliant scientists, some at my own institution of Princeton University, who are trying to better understand the earth's climate, now, in the past, and what it may be in the future. I regret that the climate-change issue has become confused with serious problems like secure energy supplies, protecting our environment, and figuring out where future generations will get energy supplies after we have burned all the fossil fuel we can find. We should not confuse these laudable goals with hysterics about carbon footprints. For example, when weighing pluses and minuses of the continued or increased use of coal, the negative issue should not be increased atmospheric CO2, which is probably good for mankind. We should focus on real issues like damage to the land and waterways by strip mining, inadequate remediation, hazards to miners, the release of real pollutants and poisons like mercury, other heavy metals, organic carcinogens, etc. Life is about making decisions and decisions are about trade-offs. The Congress can choose to promote investment in technology that addresses real problems and scientific research that will let us cope with real problems more efficiently. Or they can act on unreasonable fears and suppress energy use, economic growth and the benefits that come from the creation of national wealth.

William Happer is the Cyrus Fogg Bracket Professor of Physics at Princeton University where his main areas of focus have been on atomic, molecular and optical physics. His professional work has been in studying the interactions of visible and infrared radiation with gases -- one of the main physical phenomena behind the greenhouse effect.


Full transcript of speech to Senate: http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5441" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It really is a very interesting read!

Last edited by Cal on Thu May 03, 2012 11:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Commander Jameson
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Down in the tube station at midnight

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Commander Jameson » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:38 am

This is the same Dr. William Happer who served as a Director of the US Department of Energy under George Bush Snr?

I'll take what he says with a pinch of salt...

User avatar
Eighthours
Emeritus
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
Location: Bristol

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Eighthours » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:40 am

Commander Jameson wrote:This is the same Dr. William Happer who served as a Director of the US Department of Energy under George Bush Snr?


:lol:

Another unbiased source from Cal, then.

User avatar
Denster
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Denster » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:43 am

It begins!

User avatar
Commander Jameson
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Down in the tube station at midnight

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Commander Jameson » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:44 am

Eighthours wrote:
Commander Jameson wrote:This is the same Dr. William Happer who served as a Director of the US Department of Energy under George Bush Snr?


:lol:

Another unbiased source from Cal, then.


I find it bizarre that the old boy didn't at least look to see if the source was neutral or not. I eagerly await Cal's post on 'Why Jews are bad' authored by A. Hitler et al...

Last edited by Commander Jameson on Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Denster
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Denster » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:47 am

You're thinking of 'Mein Kampf', CJ.

User avatar
KK
Moderator
Joined in 2008
Location: Botswana
Contact:

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by KK » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:48 am

Image

Image
User avatar
Alvin Flummux
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:53 am

Cal, do try and find respectable sources next time, will you?

User avatar
Cal
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Cal » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:34 pm

Commander Jameson wrote:This is the same Dr. William Happer who served as a Director of the US Department of Energy under George Bush Snr?

I'll take what he says with a pinch of salt...


Please do. I invite everyone to take whatever anyone says on any side in the debate with a huge pinch of salt. But lets not assume because he speaks against the prevailing wisdom of the day and that he has links back to a very environmentally-unfriendly administration that his views are wholly without merit. Or is that how this works?

Are only the pro global warming evangelists permitted to have a valid hearing?

User avatar
Alvin Flummux
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:39 pm

Many people in important positions don't want global warming to be real or man-made because the consequences of it happening will be catastrophic, both for the economy and for those bodies they are linked to which have a vested interest in continuing mass pollution. So, if they feel they can get away with it, they try and try to preach that it's not real, that maybe their words will influence the increasing amounts of carbon parts per million in the atmosphere.

User avatar
Cal
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Cal » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:08 pm

Many [scientists] in important positions ... want global warming to be real or man-made because the [wholly speculative] consequences of it [being true] will [they claim] be catastrophic... So, if they feel they can get away with it, they try and try to preach that it's ... real, that maybe their words will influence the [budget considerations in the next round of government expediture].


Fixed. Sorry, Alvin. ;) Just trying to illustrate how easy it is for anyone to twist words around to suit any meaning...

User avatar
Eighthours
Emeritus
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
Location: Bristol

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Eighthours » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:14 pm

Cal wrote:Are only the pro global warming evangelists permitted to have a valid hearing?


No. But you seem to think that only the "anti" ones are!

User avatar
Alvin Flummux
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:15 pm

Did you see the New Scientist article on what would happen if a 4 degree warming occurs this century, naturally or by our hands? The consequences for shutting your eyes, sticking your fingers in your eyes and screaming "It's not happening!" as scientists warn us of what might happen could be utterly catastrophic for humanity and countless other species, whereas if nothing is going to happen then at least we'll have made our energy, fuel, cars etc much more environmentally friendly and efficient.

Or don't you want a better, cleaner world?

User avatar
SEP
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by SEP » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:40 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:Did you see the New Scientist article on what would happen if a 4 degree warming occurs this century, naturally or by our hands? The consequences for shutting your eyes, sticking your fingers in your eyes and screaming "It's not happening!" as scientists warn us of what might happen could be utterly catastrophic for humanity and countless other species, whereas if nothing is going to happen then at least we'll have made our energy, fuel, cars etc much more environmentally friendly and efficient.

Or don't you want a better, cleaner world?


This is what people can't seem to get their heads around. Yes, the world will eventually warm up. No, there is strawberry float all we can do about it, as it is a COMPLETELY NATURAL CYCLE THAT HAS HAPPENED, AND HAS BEEN PROVED TO HAVE HAPPENED FOR MILLENIA. You may find this hard to believe, but technically we're in an ice age now.

Image
User avatar
Denster
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Denster » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:44 pm

MCN wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:Did you see the New Scientist article on what would happen if a 4 degree warming occurs this century, naturally or by our hands? The consequences for shutting your eyes, sticking your fingers in your eyes and screaming "It's not happening!" as scientists warn us of what might happen could be utterly catastrophic for humanity and countless other species, whereas if nothing is going to happen then at least we'll have made our energy, fuel, cars etc much more environmentally friendly and efficient.

Or don't you want a better, cleaner world?


This is what people can't seem to get their heads around. Yes, the world will eventually warm up. No, there is strawberry float all we can do about it, as it is a COMPLETELY NATURAL CYCLE THAT HAS HAPPENED, AND HAS BEEN PROVED TO HAVE HAPPENED FOR MILLENIA. You may find this hard to believe, but technically we're in an ice age now.


It snowed briefly this morning. Coincidence - i don't think so.

User avatar
Alvin Flummux
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:52 pm

MCN wrote:This is what people can't seem to get their heads around. Yes, the world will eventually warm up. No, there is strawberry float all we can do about it, as it is a COMPLETELY NATURAL CYCLE THAT HAS HAPPENED, AND HAS BEEN PROVED TO HAVE HAPPENED FOR MILLENIA. You may find this hard to believe, but technically we're in an ice age now.


Actually, we're in an interglacial period. ;)

Anyway, yes there are entirely natural cycles of warming and cooling, nobody ever disputed that, but when you (through over a hundred years of global heavy industry, the explosively fast take-up of auto mobiles and other carbon-emitting things) artificially up the about of carbon in the atmosphere from 280ppm to 385ppm today, and to what could exceed 500ppm this century as year-on-year carbon emissions and global populations increase (we may be aiming to lower them, but emissions are up 1-1.5% every year, and we'll be a 9 billion strong species soon enough)... it all adds up to an artificial warming of our world.

Through means we have already established we have shown ourselves entirely capable of artificially altering the climate, and if it goes up by more than 3 degrees this century we could see billions die in the rush to the ice free polar regions, if governments don't organise and plan meticulously.

Last edited by Alvin Flummux on Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Dandy Kong
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Dandy Kong

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Dandy Kong » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:55 pm

This just in: climate change due to farting mussels. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090303/ts ... ff8aa.html

Image
User avatar
Hexx
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Hexx » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:58 pm

Dandy Kong wrote:This just in: climate change due to farting mussels. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090303/ts ... ff8aa.html


Luckily people like you and I have been training our farting muscles for years...

User avatar
Dandy Kong
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Dandy Kong

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Dandy Kong » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm

Hexx wrote:
Dandy Kong wrote:This just in: climate change due to farting mussels. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090303/ts ... ff8aa.html


Luckily people like you and I have been training our farting muscles for years...


Ehm... right.

Well then: this just in: climate change to be solved by gays.

Image
User avatar
Cal
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Global Warming: Truths & Myths - Statement to US Senate
by Cal » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:34 pm

Dandy Kong wrote:Well then: this just in: climate change to be solved by gays.


I doubt it. That would leave very little time for shopping at Dykea. 8-)


Return to “Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 140 guests