Greece & the €uro Crisis.

If a husband beats his wife, but the wife gives him another chance and then gets beaten again, is it the wife's fault for not kicking his ass out?

Victim blaming doesn't make sense. Blame the utterly corrupt EU.

The yes referendum just got a massive shot in the arm now.

So what will they do if we just tell them "strawberry float off, we're not paying and you knew we wouldn't"? The written agreement has been seen as perfectly valid for the last 5 years, so they'll have a hard time suddenly turning around and now saying it's not.
Britain are almost certainly not the only country that will be incredibly apprehensive about putting themselves at risk by relying on Greece to pay back money either. Getting 85 percent of the EU member states on-board is going to be a hell of a struggle when it's almost certain that Greece will just end up defaulting eventually.

Probably better than the alternative: a Greek Weimar Republic.

Lucien wrote:So Syriza is just basically a regular party. Must be disappointing if you voted for them hoping for actual change. As it is: more debt, more austerity.

Even Tsipras realised the writing was on the wall. Back in January, the Greek voters voted for something that was never realistic unless the EU wrote off mountains of their debt, unfortunately. What we're learning here is that there are consequences for historic behaviour, consequences for game-playing, and the people who suffer when politicians lie and talk themselves up unrealistically are ordinary folk. This is the Greckoning.

Was watching the news channels last night and they were interviewing various folk. Ooooh, that hatred towards Germany rearing its head again...

Grumpy David wrote:If a husband beats his wife, but the wife gives him another chance and then gets beaten again, is it the wife's fault for not kicking his ass out?

Victim blaming doesn't make sense. Blame the utterly corrupt EU.

It's a nice thought, GD, but I'm afraid that's like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Those who are deep in thrall to the EU Project will never admit to its failings; to do so would be to provide legitimacy to those who call for a Brexit/Grexit (choose your EU nation). We know how the EU works, from past examples - it doesn't respect democratic will and when it gets a vote it doesn't like it forces entire nations to vote again for the 'correct' result.

History shows all this, yet still those who are in the service of, or hopelessly mesmerised by, the EU agenda refuse to see it. A Brexit, come the fabled referendum, will in all likelihood never happen (and never be permitted to happen); between now and then there will be endless smoke and mirrors between a pro-EU Cameron government and the EU bureaucracy itself to confuse, discombobulate and misdirect the UK voting population into eventually voting the 'correct' way. The European Project comes first - and most certainly before any quaint notions of genuine democratic will. Greece is not just a tragedy for the Greek: it's yet another salutary warning to the rest of us. Trouble is, most people don't care, don't notice and many just don't want to listen.

Cal wrote:

Grumpy David wrote:If a husband beats his wife, but the wife gives him another chance and then gets beaten again, is it the wife's fault for not kicking his ass out?

Victim blaming doesn't make sense. Blame the utterly corrupt EU.

It's a nice thought, GD, but I'm afraid that's like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Those who are deep in thrall to the EU Project will never admit to its failings; to do so would be to provide legitimacy to those who call for a Brexit/Grexit (choose your EU nation). We know how the EU works, from past examples - it doesn't respect democratic will and when it gets a vote it doesn't like it forces entire nations to vote again for the 'correct' result.

History shows all this, yet still those who are in the service of, or hopelessly mesmerised by, the EU agenda refuse to see it. A Brexit, come the fabled referendum, will in all likelihood never happen (and never be permitted to happen); between now and then there will be endless smoke and mirrors between a pro-EU Cameron government and the EU bureaucracy itself to confuse, discombobulate and misdirect the UK voting population into eventually voting the 'correct' way. The European Project comes first - and most certainly before any quaint notions of genuine democratic will. Greece is not just a tragedy for the Greek: it's yet another salutary warning to the rest of us. Trouble is, most people don't care, don't notice and many just don't want to listen.

You really do write like an arse. Your point would be better made and people would be more likely to take it on board if you didn't write in hyperbole, tabloid talk and didn't come across as so condescending.

Moggy wrote:

Cal wrote:

Grumpy David wrote:If a husband beats his wife, but the wife gives him another chance and then gets beaten again, is it the wife's fault for not kicking his ass out?

Victim blaming doesn't make sense. Blame the utterly corrupt EU.

It's a nice thought, GD, but I'm afraid that's like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Those who are deep in thrall to the EU Project will never admit to its failings; to do so would be to provide legitimacy to those who call for a Brexit/Grexit (choose your EU nation). We know how the EU works, from past examples - it doesn't respect democratic will and when it gets a vote it doesn't like it forces entire nations to vote again for the 'correct' result.

History shows all this, yet still those who are in the service of, or hopelessly mesmerised by, the EU agenda refuse to see it. A Brexit, come the fabled referendum, will in all likelihood never happen (and never be permitted to happen); between now and then there will be endless smoke and mirrors between a pro-EU Cameron government and the EU bureaucracy itself to confuse, discombobulate and misdirect the UK voting population into eventually voting the 'correct' way. The European Project comes first - and most certainly before any quaint notions of genuine democratic will. Greece is not just a tragedy for the Greek: it's yet another salutary warning to the rest of us. Trouble is, most people don't care, don't notice and many just don't want to listen.

You really do write like an arse. Your point would be better made and people would be more likely to take it on board if you didn't write in hyperbole, tabloid talk and didn't come across as so condescending.

How is your comment anything other than an unhelpful intervention, Moggy? You wouldn't dare pull that kind of thing in one of your beloved [DISCUSSION] topics (which I will never contribute to again, ever, on principle) so why do it here? Because you can? I haven't insulted anyone, or called them names - but you do. You also want to tell me how I should comment, presumably because your way is the right way, before reminding me not to be 'condescending'.

Cal wrote:(which I will never contribute to again, ever, on principle)

Contribute to again? It would have been nice if you had contributed something of value just once.

Seems like the Germans are now upset that the Greeks had the temerity to actually go and accept their gooseberry fool bailout offer

Here the vote goes!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33532485

This is great, because if anyone is to blame for all the problems in Greece it is us. We gave the country a long and bloody civil war which crippled everything in Greece thanks to how Churchills government really strawberry floated up in WW2 due to the fear of communism.

Do you wish the Nazis had won WW2 or something? You seem to utterly despise the allied leaders.

Lagamorph wrote:Do you wish Japan had won WW2 or something? You seem to utterly despise the allied leaders.

FTFY

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/government-debt-to-gdp


How anyone can try to blame the current Greek crisis on Churchill is beyond me. The truth is laid out plain as day in those figures. Successive governments since 1980 ran up a massive debt and then failed to bring it down to safe level so that when the banking crisis hit they had no room to manoeuvre. We can argue all day about how the crisis has been handled but the cause is not in question.

Coming next in the ongoing saga that is Staydead - 101 Reasons to hate Churchill: Volume 5, we discover Churchill hated dogs, Hitler ran a camel sanctuary in Yemen, & Unit 731 discovered Nurofen.

KKLEIN wrote:Coming next in the ongoing saga that is Staydead - 101 Reasons to hate Churchill: Volume 5, we discover Churchill hated dogs,

That was just Nazi propaganda.



He did hate cats though and loved cutting off their heads and then attaching them to the front of Spitfires.

So just to be clear, the Greek are now in the same position as however many weeks ago before the new government was put in place ?

They're probably in a worse position due to it being left so late and the bank closure.
The only silver lining is that the IMF have said that some of the Greek debt might need to be written off.

When it comes to blame for the crisis though, it rather squarely falls on Greece itself primarily. Who'd have thought a culture of tax evasion and cooking the books would come back to bite you?