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Rocsteady
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by Rocsteady » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:45 pm

Hime wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:I did mean to put obviously guys like the Rock have probably used in the past. Zac Efron seems a strange choice, he was 165 pounds in Baywatch which doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

Mate, the rock is 100% currently on gear. The guy's in his mid 40s and is shredded to strawberry float! No one in the world has natty genetics like that.

Zac Efron in Baywatch too, honestly. There is no way he is that shredded without juice. Diet and workouts can only get you so far; admittedly very far, and enough for 99% of people, but it's physically impossible to look like that without additional help.

Like I said I wouldn't be surprised to see guys like the Rock using as they're well over 200 pounds and shredded. As you quoted are do you think Jeff Cavalier uses?

I dunno about Effron, I follow a few You Tubers that are more shredded than him as natural lifters.

I dunno man, I'm super sceptical about YTers who claim natty. Jeff Seid and Mike O Hearn claim natty, these people 100% inject. Very few YouTubers who are popular will be looking good enough to be stars while still being natural. Nattys don't generally turn heads enough to make people watch their advice.

Hadn't heard of that Jeff guy before but...maybe. He looks similar to my build at my absolute peak so it is possible but he looks pretty 'full' while being totally shredded. Keeping this up constantly as he seems to would be highly unrealistic if natty, even if that is his job. I guess after years of non stop dedication he might be natty though.

It's what makes me certain Zac isn't; the guy's lean as hell but built out beautifully. He isn't genetically gifted based on earlier photos, didn't dedicate 3-4 years lifting getting gradually bigger, which is the minimum to get even close to that look, and I doubt he's living a life of non stop rice, chicken and veg while not partying for years. I just don't see his physique being attainable naturally.

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Hime
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by Hime » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:37 pm

Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:I did mean to put obviously guys like the Rock have probably used in the past. Zac Efron seems a strange choice, he was 165 pounds in Baywatch which doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

Mate, the rock is 100% currently on gear. The guy's in his mid 40s and is shredded to strawberry float! No one in the world has natty genetics like that.

Zac Efron in Baywatch too, honestly. There is no way he is that shredded without juice. Diet and workouts can only get you so far; admittedly very far, and enough for 99% of people, but it's physically impossible to look like that without additional help.

Like I said I wouldn't be surprised to see guys like the Rock using as they're well over 200 pounds and shredded. As you quoted are do you think Jeff Cavalier uses?

I dunno about Effron, I follow a few You Tubers that are more shredded than him as natural lifters.

I dunno man, I'm super sceptical about YTers who claim natty. Jeff Seid and Mike O Hearn claim natty, these people 100% inject. Very few YouTubers who are popular will be looking good enough to be stars while still being natural. Nattys don't generally turn heads enough to make people watch their advice.

Hadn't heard of that Jeff guy before but...maybe. He looks similar to my build at my absolute peak so it is possible but he looks pretty 'full' while being totally shredded. Keeping this up constantly as he seems to would be highly unrealistic if natty, even if that is his job. I guess after years of non stop dedication he might be natty though.

It's what makes me certain Zac isn't; the guy's lean as hell but built out beautifully. He isn't genetically gifted based on earlier photos, didn't dedicate 3-4 years lifting getting gradually bigger, which is the minimum to get even close to that look, and I doubt he's living a life of non stop rice, chicken and veg while not partying for years. I just don't see his physique being attainable naturally.

I hadn't heard of Mike O Hearn or Jeff Seid before but they are strawberry floating huge so I can see why you're sceptical. Look at guys like Rob Lipsett and Matt Does Fitness. The later I'm almost certain sure has good genetics as you can see in he was always athletic, started power lifting and was a bit chubby then changed to power lifting and got shredded. He does regular videos showing the difference with pictures with rubbish lighting and pre and post pump. At 190lbs that's about his genetic limit.

What do you look for as a tell tale sign that someone is using? I've always been told massive traps is a good give away as they are so hard to achieve naturally. Most professional body builders have that look but the guys who complete in physique stuff that I follow document themselves going up and down 20-30 pounds to the point that they actually look quite fat in the off season.

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Grumpy David
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by Grumpy David » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:43 pm

If there is a very strong financial incentive to look the part (and also likely to claim to be a fake-natty to avoid losing sponsorships), whilst knowing you aren't tested for PEDs due to not being a professional athlete.

"3D Delts" are a sign of juicy slut mode.

Being both full looking and lean too.

Dan Bilzarian party lifestyle (he's admitted being on gear). Can't live the best life ever and look the way he does without chemical assistance.

Being old yet more muscular than people in their 20s like Stallone in Rambo 4.

Looking like this:

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Radical changes in relatively short periods of time.

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Hime
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by Hime » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:23 pm

Dan Blizarian and any of the 80's action guys fair enough.

What in that photo do you see as not being able to achieve naturally? Obviously they will have done a huge pump workout, the lighting will be perfect to accentuate shadows and they've probably carbed up/dehydrated as necessary to get that specific look. I totally agree that that isn't what they will look like first thing in the morning but I don't see it as being unable to achieve for a photo.

*Edit* I also disagree about the full looking and lean stuff, it takes a lot of work but is totally achievable. There are loads of people who bulk up and cut, they can't all be using.

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Rocsteady
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by Rocsteady » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:18 pm

I'd say they're both on too.

Otherwise, big traps, full muscles while shredded as hell, mad vascularity, lifestyle not aligning with musculature are obvious telltales.

Rob I'd suspect fake, https://www.google.es/amp/s/amp.reddit. ... _or_juicy/, Matt guy maybe natty I dunno.

Having lifted in the country's biggest bodybuilding gym for a long time I got to know who was using and who wasn't, and very very few people can get a body like that photo above without a bit of juice. And these are guys dedicated to it for year in, year out. Many more people use than you probably realise, juicers are everywhere in gyms and some of them look worse than many of us here will do.

You simply can't maintain bodies like the above, as YT folk do, year round without juice. Things get in the way, muscles don't recover in time etc. It makes total sense to pin yourself occasionally if your livelihood depends on rather than having to sacrifice everything else in life to hit a 7%bf non stop year round.

Also that white guys muscles look puffy while he has rock solid abs. It's a very weird combo for a natty.

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Hime
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by Hime » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:59 am

Do you not think it's a case that the pictures might be shopped? Rob doesn't look like that in his videos.

I really don't think Matt is using but from my point of view is probably more that I don't want to believe that look is unattainable naturally :lol:

Do any of you do a cut/bulk cycle? I got very lean for me wedding/honeymoon and have spent the last 3 weeks cutting to get rid of any fat gained. I'm back at around 171-173 pounds (shift work makes it very difficult to track) with a goal of getting to 170. I'm now thinking is there any point in cutting for another week or two to get down when I could just start eating again now ready to cut again in summer.

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by Rocsteady » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:10 pm

Think I'm pushing myself too fast to get back into shape after time traveling, everything went white this evening while doing triceps extensions. Had to stumble to the bathroom and dunk my head under water to keep from passing out.

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Hime
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by Hime » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:47 pm

Rocsteady wrote:Think I'm pushing myself too fast to get back into shape after time traveling, everything went white this evening while doing triceps extensions. Had to stumble to the bathroom and dunk my head under water to keep from passing out.

Everyone have a brief pause after reading that?

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Rocsteady
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by Rocsteady » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:10 am

:lol: I was still feeling pretty spaced out so couldn't think of a better way to word it.

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Knoëleo
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by Knoëleo » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:23 pm

How is the "first unread post" button already broken in this new thread?

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That's not a growth
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by That's not a growth » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:31 pm

Worked for me just now.

Went for a swim the other day, first thing I've done in over a month since I did my ankle. It went well, but it has been a little sore since, but nothing that concerns me. I'll try again tomorrow. God I wish it would heal quicker.

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Rocsteady
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by Rocsteady » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:36 pm

Not just gonna turn into an upper body bro?

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by Rocsteady » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:41 pm

Hime wrote:Do you not think it's a case that the pictures might be shopped? Rob doesn't look like that in his videos.

I really don't think Matt is using but from my point of view is probably more that I don't want to believe that look is unattainable naturally :lol:

Do any of you do a cut/bulk cycle? I got very lean for me wedding/honeymoon and have spent the last 3 weeks cutting to get rid of any fat gained. I'm back at around 171-173 pounds (shift work makes it very difficult to track) with a goal of getting to 170. I'm now thinking is there any point in cutting for another week or two to get down when I could just start eating again now ready to cut again in summer.

What height are you? I'm just over 180 now, will probably try to get to about 190 by the end of winter.

I try to do mini cut and bulk cycles, genuinely depends on the amount of cannabis I have around. Because of my crohn's, trying to do a heavy bulk without weed is just insane as I have to top out around 5000+ calories. Flip side is that cutting is mad easy for me.


Also had thought it was quiet in here lately, only just realised brer is gone. Pour one up for the fallen bro:(

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by Grumpy David » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:51 pm

Dafuq happened to Brer?

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Hime
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by Hime » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:26 pm

Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:Do you not think it's a case that the pictures might be shopped? Rob doesn't look like that in his videos.

I really don't think Matt is using but from my point of view is probably more that I don't want to believe that look is unattainable naturally :lol:

Do any of you do a cut/bulk cycle? I got very lean for me wedding/honeymoon and have spent the last 3 weeks cutting to get rid of any fat gained. I'm back at around 171-173 pounds (shift work makes it very difficult to track) with a goal of getting to 170. I'm now thinking is there any point in cutting for another week or two to get down when I could just start eating again now ready to cut again in summer.

What height are you? I'm just over 180 now, will probably try to get to about 190 by the end of winter.

I try to do mini cut and bulk cycles, genuinely depends on the amount of cannabis I have around. Because of my crohn's, trying to do a heavy bulk without weed is just insane as I have to top out around 5000+ calories. Flip side is that cutting is mad easy for me.


Also had thought it was quiet in here lately, only just realised brer is gone. Pour one up for the fallen bro:(

6ft. Decided to go calories to maintenance as I'm happy with where I'm at lean wise and don't really see the point in pushing to get rid of that extra bit of body fat just to go straight into bulking. That plus I have been told that it can actually be quite dangerous staying on a cut for too long. I'm starting at 2700 cals to see with a plan to lean bulk for a few months.

How long would you class a mini cut out bulk? 5000 calories is a lot, I would imagine that is both a blessing and a hindrance especially if you have Crohn's.

Shame to hear about Beer, must be serious for him to just up and leave. Hopefully he's alright.

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by Rocsteady » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:43 pm

Hime wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:Do you not think it's a case that the pictures might be shopped? Rob doesn't look like that in his videos.

I really don't think Matt is using but from my point of view is probably more that I don't want to believe that look is unattainable naturally :lol:

Do any of you do a cut/bulk cycle? I got very lean for me wedding/honeymoon and have spent the last 3 weeks cutting to get rid of any fat gained. I'm back at around 171-173 pounds (shift work makes it very difficult to track) with a goal of getting to 170. I'm now thinking is there any point in cutting for another week or two to get down when I could just start eating again now ready to cut again in summer.

What height are you? I'm just over 180 now, will probably try to get to about 190 by the end of winter.

I try to do mini cut and bulk cycles, genuinely depends on the amount of cannabis I have around. Because of my crohn's, trying to do a heavy bulk without weed is just insane as I have to top out around 5000+ calories. Flip side is that cutting is mad easy for me.


Also had thought it was quiet in here lately, only just realised brer is gone. Pour one up for the fallen bro:(

6ft. Decided to go calories to maintenance as I'm happy with where I'm at lean wise and don't really see the point in pushing to get rid of that extra bit of body fat just to go straight into bulking. That plus I have been told that it can actually be quite dangerous staying on a cut for too long. I'm starting at 2700 cals to see with a plan to lean bulk for a few months.

How long would you class a mini cut out bulk? 5000 calories is a lot, I would imagine that is both a blessing and a hindrance especially if you have Crohn's.

Shame to hear about Beer, must be serious for him to just up and leave. Hopefully he's alright.

That sounds like a good shout, you must be fairly lean the now too as we're reasonably similar in height and I amn't stocky at all currently.

It's mainly a hindrance to be honest, I like eating but not that much. Plus I always have to rely on gooseberry fool food at some point like massive pizzas as even topping about 3000 calories with clean food is virtually impossible imo. With weed I can bulk on probably about 3500 calories as I'm not having to go to the toilet constantly. 5000 is maybe a bit of an exaggeration but it is crazy what I need when flaring up.

I'd class it as maybe 2-3 months but God knows what other people class as a normal cut/ bulk, maybe that falls under it.



Not sure about Brer, is in the MIA thread but there aren't really any details.

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Hime
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by Hime » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:01 pm

Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:
Hime wrote:Do you not think it's a case that the pictures might be shopped? Rob doesn't look like that in his videos.

I really don't think Matt is using but from my point of view is probably more that I don't want to believe that look is unattainable naturally :lol:

Do any of you do a cut/bulk cycle? I got very lean for me wedding/honeymoon and have spent the last 3 weeks cutting to get rid of any fat gained. I'm back at around 171-173 pounds (shift work makes it very difficult to track) with a goal of getting to 170. I'm now thinking is there any point in cutting for another week or two to get down when I could just start eating again now ready to cut again in summer.

What height are you? I'm just over 180 now, will probably try to get to about 190 by the end of winter.

I try to do mini cut and bulk cycles, genuinely depends on the amount of cannabis I have around. Because of my crohn's, trying to do a heavy bulk without weed is just insane as I have to top out around 5000+ calories. Flip side is that cutting is mad easy for me.


Also had thought it was quiet in here lately, only just realised brer is gone. Pour one up for the fallen bro:(

6ft. Decided to go calories to maintenance as I'm happy with where I'm at lean wise and don't really see the point in pushing to get rid of that extra bit of body fat just to go straight into bulking. That plus I have been told that it can actually be quite dangerous staying on a cut for too long. I'm starting at 2700 cals to see with a plan to lean bulk for a few months.

How long would you class a mini cut out bulk? 5000 calories is a lot, I would imagine that is both a blessing and a hindrance especially if you have Crohn's.

Shame to hear about Beer, must be serious for him to just up and leave. Hopefully he's alright.

That sounds like a good shout, you must be fairly lean the now too as we're reasonably similar in height and I amn't stocky at all currently.

It's mainly a hindrance to be honest, I like eating but not that much. Plus I always have to rely on gooseberry fool food at some point like massive pizzas as even topping about 3000 calories with clean food is virtually impossible imo. With weed I can bulk on probably about 3500 calories as I'm not having to go to the toilet constantly. 5000 is maybe a bit of an exaggeration but it is crazy what I need when flaring up.

I'd class it as maybe 2-3 months but God knows what other people class as a normal cut/ bulk, maybe that falls under it.



Not sure about Brer, is in the MIA thread but there aren't really any details.

Yeah at 32 I'm probably as lean as I've ever been. I started the cut in August for my wedding and honeymoon in October, got down to about 168 but to be honest although I was vascular and abs looked awesome I felt a bit weak and skinny, 173 feels about right at the moment for decent level of bf while still feeling strong to start a bulk.

I can do it fairly clean without much issue to be honest as I just add peanut butter and banana to oats, a bit more fruit and nuts and I'm there. I have an outrageous appetite though, that is the first long term cut I've done and the first week off I honestly don't think I felt full once, I think I could get some YouTube hits by doing a calory eating challenge when I next cut :lol: That said I don't think I need gooseberry fool food from a calorie point of view but I just enjoy having it.

2-3 months sounds reasonable. My ego just can't take getting fat so the idea of a lean bulk works better for me.

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by That's not a growth » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:05 am

Rocsteady wrote:Not just gonna turn into an upper body bro?


I've been trying to figure out why I haven't done this and can't come with one concise reason, but I think it's mainly down to a mixture of a few things:

I'm a creature of habit
If I were to go for a pure upper body workout I'd still need to change half of it since a lot of the lifts I do involve standing
I'm scared of getting bored with my cut down routine and trying to get back to things too early and re-injuring myself
My goals are more diverse than having a decent upper body (although that is one of them), and working towards one goal but not any of the others feels demotivating (and a lot of my goals are cardio based)
I spoke with a personal trainer who said the best cardio for me to do was the stairmaster. As you can imagine, I would rather do nothing than that solidly for over a month

Also, I was planning on taking a week or so off at the time of the accident anyway, and it turns out it was too easy to let this stretch longer.

But I have used this time to lower my calories and eat a bit cleaner and I've been loosing a bit of weight, about 4-5kg so far. Hopefully not too much of that is muscle.

Also, shame to hear about Brer

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Hime
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by Hime » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:19 am

That's not a growth wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:Not just gonna turn into an upper body bro?


I've been trying to figure out why I haven't done this and can't come with one concise reason, but I think it's mainly down to a mixture of a few things:

I'm a creature of habit
If I were to go for a pure upper body workout I'd still need to change half of it since a lot of the lifts I do involve standing
I'm scared of getting bored with my cut down routine and trying to get back to things too early and re-injuring myself
My goals are more diverse than having a decent upper body (although that is one of them), and working towards one goal but not any of the others feels demotivating (and a lot of my goals are cardio based)
I spoke with a personal trainer who said the best cardio for me to do was the stairmaster. As you can imagine, I would rather do nothing than that solidly for over a month

Also, I was planning on taking a week or so off at the time of the accident anyway, and it turns out it was too easy to let this stretch longer.

But I have used this time to lower my calories and eat a bit cleaner and I've been loosing a bit of weight, about 4-5kg so far. Hopefully not too much of that is muscle.

Also, shame to hear about Brer

Surely it's got to be better to do something than nothing? There are loads of exercises you can do sitting down, couldn't you think of it as a chance to learn some different lifts? Can you not do leg extensions and curls for your lower body? What about swimming?

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by That's not a growth » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:02 pm

I've started swimming again so getting slowly back into it, and it shouldn't be long until I'm properly at it. Think I'm going to have to give the treadmill a go before I run outside, mind. Hate to do an injury and be stuck somewhere.


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