Happy St George's Day, everyone!

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SandyCoin
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by SandyCoin » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:56 pm

You said you don't see that kind of thing in other countries!

He responds, correcting you that you DO see that kind of thing and you laugh and are all " :fp: everyone else does argument again"?

Amazing :lol: Astonishing in fact.

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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:57 pm

Dan. wrote:
Photek wrote:You'll not see a monument to a person like that in many countries.


There's a statue of Father Theobald Mathew in Dublin, one of the most famous advocates of teetotalism. What do you think he'd have to say about St Patrick's Day? ;)


There's also a statue of Phil Lynott in Dublin, one of the most famous advocates of not being teetotal. Horses for courses. :slol:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Moggy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:59 pm

Photek wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Photek wrote:Oliver Cromwell has a statue at westminster amongst many others throughout England and is referred to as Lord Protector at Arms.


I wonder why the guy that fought against the monarchy for parliament gets a statue at parliament...

He was a child murderer...You'll not see a monument to a person like that in many countries.


Really? Take a look at any country in the world with a long history and you will see statues and monuments to Kings, Queens, Emperors and leaders that were just as bad as Cromwell.

The EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT argument again! fuckinghell :lol: :fp:

sorry, im done...


You really are a strawberry floating idiot. It was you that brought up other countries.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Moggy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:00 pm

SandyCoin wrote:You said you don't see that kind of thing in other countries!

He responds, correcting you that you DO see that kind of thing and you laugh and are all " :fp: everyone else does argument again"?

Amazing :lol: Astonishing in fact.


:lol:

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Hypes
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Hypes » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:01 pm

Photek :fp:

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Photek
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Photek » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:02 pm

@ Cora:

I expected the backlash, but thought it'd be one or 2 posts but everyone had a go so just replied back, my bad.

I'm not taking a condescending stance, if you see it that way then thats fair enough, truthfully its more of an exacerbated view than anything else.

:fp: at self for Moggy post, I was in middle of printing stuff and seen it without fully reading post. :slol:

Last edited by Photek on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hypes
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Hypes » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:05 pm

You'd get less of a backlash if you stopped making gooseberry fool up

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Irene Demova
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Irene Demova » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:07 pm

Without the subjugation of the Irish some novels I really like wouldn't have been written so I think that makes England's history even on balance

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Imrahil
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Imrahil » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:08 pm

I kinda like how low-key St George's Day is. It's like being English is already pretty damn awesome, we don't really need a particular day to 'celebrate' it. Seems a bit like gloating. ;)

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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Herdanos » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:09 pm

Photek wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Photek wrote:Oliver Cromwell has a statue at westminster amongst many others throughout England and is referred to as Lord Protector at Arms.


I wonder why the guy that fought against the monarchy for parliament gets a statue at parliament...

He was a child murderer...You'll not see a monument to a person like that in many countries.


Really? Take a look at any country in the world with a long history and you will see statues and monuments to Kings, Queens, Emperors and leaders that were just as bad as Cromwell.

The EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT argument again! fuckinghell :lol: :fp:

sorry, im done...


Alright, would you like me to give you a different spin on it?

I personally have no idea why Oliver Cromwell has a statue at parliament and I'd have no part in erecting one if the choice were up to me. But likewise I personally wouldn't advocate statues of any member of the royal family, or of particular political figures in England's past.

The fact that there are advocates of Cromwell in our country, or art celebrating him, does not signify that we as a nation approve of his actions or celebrate his life. Just as the monuments to kings and emperors of ages past in other countries do not provide evidence that those nations and their peoples believe the persons depicted are worthy of praise, or immune to criticism.

Cromwell's son, Richard, had his "reign" ended by the "restoration" - that is, the political forces within England at the time sought the removal of the system Cromwell had put in place and its replacement with the former monarchy. That monarchy then had its power reduced again less than thirty years later, in an event still known today as the "Glorious Revolution", a move which forever reduced the power of a monarch or similar head of state figure in Britain when compared with a democratically elected parliament.

It isn't just in modern times that Cromwell divides opinion - it was true in the seventeenth century too!

There is no such thing as Oliver Cromwell Day, and the fact that you essentially invented a public holiday and then accused us all for celebrating it isn't the kind of thing that we should forget if we're being fair :lol: It might have 500, a thousand, hell it could have ten thousand advocates for all I care. I'm sure change . org could get a few thousand people to sign on their advocation of a Mr Bean national holiday but again, this doesn't reflect the official stance of a nation, or the feelings of its people.

Regardless of the atrocities committed elsewhere by others, England's record has very poor periods. We have analysed and evaluated these atrocities, we aren't interested in denial. England's literary and university circles are some of the best-renowned in the world when it comes to history and historiography. Not to blow our trumpet (heaven forbid in a thread about England's "national day") but my point is that it's hard to take your accusations of, well, English denial of the worst parts of its past seriously when a) no-one has done such a thing in this thread and b) no-one would do such a thing in the academic or political community if pressed on the point. We don't forget. We regret the actions of some of our ancestors; we celebrate the achievements of others. We study history so we know which should be which, and why.

If it makes you feel better: we English are also extremely good at being self-deprecating. The word 'sorry' is used regularly in conversation by every English person, as a conversational filler for anything from accidentally brushing another person in the street, to not having exact change for a purchase. Next time you hear a flustered Englishman mouth a typically-English and probably-unnecessary "sorry!" when he lets you out at a Give Way sign but didn't wave you by quick enough, just pretend that he's doing so to atone for centuries of imperial activity. ;)

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Photek
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Photek » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:17 pm

Great Post Dan, again.

I knew Cromwell Day was small but I remember some royals and members of government attending churches and things advocating it. You're right though, to the wide public its not talked about or known even.

You'd understand a little bit the sheer disdain I'd feel towards such a statue though I presume and of the other lords and gentry that gather to celebrate him.

Other than that, it has been lost that I have said the English should celebrate St Georges Day so ill say it again.

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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by False » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:26 pm

Dan. wrote:
Falsey wrote:I think the reason its 'ok' for other UK nations to be openly proud is because they tend to have a history of being the oppressed, rather than the oppressors.


I know what you mean, but national pride is many things to many people. I know folk who are proud of being Scottish and the role they play within the UK; I know folk who are proud of being Scottish because they're not English. :lol: I'm proud of being English - not of our 'monarch', national anthem, or colonial past, but of so many other things. Our welfare state. Our vast diversity and how well we integrate people from literally hundreds of other countries. Our heroes of '66 :wub: Our national parks, beaches and castles and wild hillsides. Our sometimes bizarre and inexplicable landmarks. The way our politicians have to refer to one another as 'my right honourable friend' even when they're at each other's throats.


Aye, I see what you are getting at. As I said myself, I am happy to live here, I think its a good place.

You arent going to catch me wrapped in a St G cross flag stamping down the road to Rule Britannia.

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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:38 pm

I had a quick look for that Photek and couldn't find anything beyond some daft-bastard archbishop who appears to be heavily involved in the Cromwell Society anyway. Like I say, I wouldn't take the Cromwell society very seriously - I'd never heard of them before you brought them up and they do seem like a bunch of oddities Like the people who went to the funeral service of Richard III the other week. :slol:

The problem isn't your views, Photek, I totally get why an Irishman would not be the biggest fan of English history when it involves at various times the subjugation of your entire country and the killing of hundreds of thousands of Catholic Irishmen, it's completely understandable. You just don't represent yourself very well sometimes with blanket statements and the like. Looks like trolling.

Telling an Englishman that he shouldn't celebrate his history is as daft as telling anyone they shouldn't celebrate their heritage - for a lot of people it's a source of immense pride(I don't share in it, but I do understand it). Modifying the statement to say that England has done some amazing things, but we shouldn't forget the tragedies that have been caused, would have been a hell of a lot safer and closer to what I think you actually meant! Like I said, I'd be shocked and disappointed if anyone in here is proud of killing Catholics, Indians, Native Americans etc etc. :dread:

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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Albert » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:40 pm

Photek wrote:Not drinking for january.
Grow beard longer.
Try to represent myself on here better cos people's opinions of me are way off, my own fault of course.

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Rhubarb
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Rhubarb » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:40 pm

ProPoser wrote:Fair play to the Guinness marketing team. Considering they're basically peddling a disgusting drink that tastes like ashtrays and turns your gooseberry fool black, they've managed to turn St Patrick's Day into quite the phenomenon.


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PostRe: RE: Re: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by degoose » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:46 pm

Photek wrote:
Hyperion wrote:No we don't and if we did it wouldn't be anywhere near the same

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Cromwell's+Day
*drops mic*

strawberry float you are daft sometimes Photek.I'll celebrate that day though this year just for you.

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jiggles
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by jiggles » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:57 pm

Albear wrote:
Photek wrote:Not drinking for january.
Grow beard longer.
Try to represent myself on here better cos people's opinions of me are way off, my own fault of course.


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Ironhide
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Ironhide » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:57 pm

Rhubarb wrote:
ProPoser wrote:Fair play to the Guinness marketing team. Considering they're basically peddling a disgusting drink that tastes like ashtrays and turns your gooseberry fool black, they've managed to turn St Patrick's Day into quite the phenomenon.


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Lets not say things we can't take back here.


Something is very wrong with Posers tastebuds.

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jiggles
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by jiggles » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:00 pm

Have you ever drank an ashtray? They're surprisingly delicious.

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Dual
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PostRe: Happy St George's Day, everyone!
by Dual » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:03 pm

Falsey wrote:
Dan. wrote:
Falsey wrote:I think the reason its 'ok' for other UK nations to be openly proud is because they tend to have a history of being the oppressed, rather than the oppressors.


I know what you mean, but national pride is many things to many people. I know folk who are proud of being Scottish and the role they play within the UK; I know folk who are proud of being Scottish because they're not English. :lol: I'm proud of being English - not of our 'monarch', national anthem, or colonial past, but of so many other things. Our welfare state. Our vast diversity and how well we integrate people from literally hundreds of other countries. Our heroes of '66 :wub: Our national parks, beaches and castles and wild hillsides. Our sometimes bizarre and inexplicable landmarks. The way our politicians have to refer to one another as 'my right honourable friend' even when they're at each other's throats.


Aye, I see what you are getting at. As I said myself, I am happy to live here, I think its a good place.

You arent going to catch me wrapped in a St G cross flag stamping down the road to Rule Britannia.


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