have nintendo ballsed up ?

Yeah, come to think of it Nintendo's 1st party output for the Cube wasn't actually that big. Maybe 10 AAA games at most over five years, and that was with the help of 2nd parties.

The 360 seems to have adopted the massive backing the PS2 had. So back then you could just as easily compare the PS2 with the GC and say that Nintendo aren't making enough games.

Luckily there are plenty of games from the first-half of the year that I haven't had my way with.

There really isn't anything from Nintendo for the Wii that really interests me from now until the end of the year.

I did wonder if Nintendo's E3 conference was the company's first significant misstep regarding the Wii (I think the mainstream press viewed it almost as negatively as the specialist press). Nothing much seems to have changed since then though.

And I imagine Wii Fit, Wii Play and Mario Kart will still be there or thereabouts throughout the year.

Green Gecko wrote:Yeah, come to think of it Nintendo's 1st party output for the Cube wasn't actually that big. Maybe 10 AAA games at most over five years, and that was with the help of 2nd parties.

The 360 seems to have adopted the massive backing the PS2 had. So back then you could just as easily compare the PS2 with the GC and say that Nintendo aren't making enough games.

There are two main reasons (I think) that it's more noticeable now.

1. On top of its normal output Nintendo is also making games which appeal to casual audiences - this rankles with some people because fewer Wii developers are making games for core audiences too. And those who are suffer from problem 2...

2. The graphics issue. Multiformat releases often looked better on the Cube than their PS2 counterparts, which made them a more viable option for gamers with more than one console (even though Xbox games would generally get the best of the deal). Obviously the Wii versions of multiformat games (of which there are fewer still given the significant hardware differences) suffer from a pure graphical comparison, while most people think that the motion controls don't make up for the lack of HD visuals/online components/physics/whatever.

Generally, those titles where the developer has included some decent motion control ideas are performing fairly well (there are a few titles where the Wii version is selling better than the rest) because the non-core gamers aren't so bothered about those things, as to them the controls are more accessible and enjoyable. Generally, regular gamers who have become accustomed to using joypads for years - and many of these will also own another console with a more traditional controller - don't feel the same benefit from using motion controls.

It's the nature of the Wii itself that's led to this situation. Nintendo is playing to its own console's strengths, but not enough third parties are. The real litmus test for whether core games can perform well on Wii is MadWorld, assuming it has a decent marketing spend. As a sop to the core, if I was Nintendo I'd be making sure I helped Sega out on that one - as decent sales for a mature title could prove to other developers that investing time and money into making Wii games (instead of knocking out a quick minigame compendium or two) can genuinely reap dividends.

Oxx wrote:I did wonder if Nintendo's E3 conference was the company's first significant misstep regarding the Wii (I think the mainstream press viewed it almost as negatively as the specialist press).

I'd agree with that. The irony of that, of course, is the mainstream press' awareness of videogames has risen sharply over recent years mainly thanks to DS and Wii - and thus, non-specialist publications and sites have started employing those educated in the medium (see: Tom Hoggins) who are far more in tune with the hardcore audience.

The problem with many gamers all they care for are Nintendo games which is the problem i for 1 am glad they take their foot off the peddle this xmas hopefully in the next 6-9 months a load of 2rd party games will be out and they can let them take the market, until next year when 1st part games will be ready.

Every is always like When is the next Ninty game? Why the hell don't people braoden their games and try other stuff not just waiting for mario, Zelda, smash Mk, etc its annoying that many here seem to think they are the only games.

And Greco i do think that Nintendo are not realeasing much to let the 3rd parties go for it more give them a solid 9 month window where no massive as such games will really release so mad world and the conduit get a chance, we will see new pro evo, fifa, COD5, GH, Rock band etc will take this xmas hopefully with AC up there too

Herb wrote:The new Oasis album is out in October so Nintendo aren't completely abandoning us.

That's not quite what I meant you cheeky sod!

As for the wii line up being better than the others this year, I really can't agree. I'm not a fan of smash brothers, but I can understand that may people think it's great. Mario Kart wii has picked up where the previous one left off in the sense that it is decent, but mildly disappointing.

As Canton says, there is a tendency to overlook less high-profile wii games that are actually quite good, yet I still think that overall the output for the wii is very disappointing.

I simply don't agree with the relative output point as made by Canton above either. One of the alleged benefits of the wii is the fact that, not to put too fine a point on it, it is using inferior hardware. The costs of making games, therefore, is lower as is, one would imagine, the turn around time for getting games out the door. There has been little evidence of this beyond the cheap party knock-offs that have flooded the market. Are we really saying that SSB Wii and Mario Kart Wii take the same time to build this gen as last, even though they utilise much of the same tech?

No, I really think that Nintendo have been over-zealous in making software for the casual demographic: the gaping pilotwings/f-Zero/anything decent sized hole in the latter half of Nintendo's 2008 line-up is the best illustration of this.

Thankfully though, they seem to be taking this on board and (one would hope) we’ll see an improvement in 2009.

outoftime101 wrote:I simply don't agree with the relative output point as made by Canton above either. One of the alleged benefits of the wii is the fact that, not to put too fine a point on it, it is using inferior hardware. The costs of making games, therefore, is lower as is, one would imagine, the turn around time for getting games out the door.

I was never saying Nintendo's output shouldn't have been increased, merely that it's not actually producing fewer core games, as some have suggested.

Are we really saying that SSB Wii and Mario Kart Wii take the same time to build this gen as last, even though they utilise much of the same tech?

The tech may be fairly similar, but the art is very different. Brawl in particular is a much better-looking game than its predecessor. It's clearly not the evolutionary leap from N64 to GameCube, but without being entirely familiar with the architecture and how comparatively easy/difficult it is to program for, it's hard to suggest that games should have a much shorter development period.

No, I really think that Nintendo have been over-zealous in making software for the casual demographic: the gaping pilotwings/f-Zero/anything decent sized hole in the latter half of Nintendo's 2008 line-up is the best illustration of this.

The surprise with which Reggie said (to paraphrase slightly) "What about Animal Crossing?" leads me to believe that Nintendo didn't consider that a particularly 'casual' title. That's perhaps because the GC version was very much a cult hit, appealing most to Nintendo's staunchest fans. The DS game was where the franchise turned into a breakout hit, but Nintendo clearly misread the current mood if it thought Crosso was enough for the core gamer this Winter.

It's also a great shame apparently everyone seems to be discounting Wario Land: The Shake Dimension - no doubt that's partly down to Nintendo practically ignoring the game itself at E3, but it's disheartening to see no-one on here even considering taking a look at what is probably the best 2D platformer since Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat.

Thankfully though, they seem to be taking this on board and (one would hope) we’ll see an improvement in 2009.

I'm certain this will be the case - hopefully MotionPlus will inspire a few developers. Indeed, I have high hopes for EA's forthcoming tennis game with Wii as lead platform. The console's been crying out for a take on Wii Tennis with greater depth.

To be fair to Nintendo with regards to the core franchises (Mario and Zelda) I'd much rather them take 3 years plus on each new title to keep to the usual unbelievably high quality than maybe a game every 18 months that is merely great.

outoftime101 wrote:No, I really think that Nintendo have been over-zealous in making software for the casual demographic: the gaping pilotwings/f-Zero/anything decent sized hole in the latter half of Nintendo's 2008 line-up is the best illustration of this.

More money for less work (I'm assuming that less work is needed on, say, Cooking Mama than a new Zelda game) or hardcore kudos? I think the likes of you and I may not be foremost in the big N's concerns anymore. Lets face it, Nicole Kidman changed it all forever. The good news is that doesn't have to mean the games get worse. Just different.

Peter Crisp wrote:To be fair to Nintendo with regards to the core franchises (Mario and Zelda) I'd much rather them take 3 years plus on each new title to keep to the usual unbelievably high quality than maybe a game every 18 months that is merely great.

Absolutely.

Of course, the other problem here is Nintendo's decision to only talk about games shortly before they're due to be released. While it's nice to hear that a new game is coming very soon, it goes against the industry grain, which is to cocktease about titles for years, gradually building gamers up to the vinegar strokes before the game's release so that - no matter how negative the previews - the hype is at the point of no return, and most are still tempted to splooge when the game's launched.

Hero of Canton wrote:The surprise with which Reggie said (to paraphrase slightly) "What about Animal Crossing?" leads me to believe that Nintendo didn't consider that a particularly 'casual' title. That's perhaps because the GC version was very much a cult hit, appealing most to Nintendo's staunchest fans. The DS game was where the franchise turned into a breakout hit, but Nintendo clearly misread the current mood if it thought Crosso was enough for the core gamer this Winter.

The problem with Animal Crossing is that it looks practically identical to the games in the series before it. Far from being the leap forward in the series that fans were hoping for, at present it looks like a phenomenally lazy update.

Eighthours wrote:

Hero of Canton wrote:The surprise with which Reggie said (to paraphrase slightly) "What about Animal Crossing?" leads me to believe that Nintendo didn't consider that a particularly 'casual' title. That's perhaps because the GC version was very much a cult hit, appealing most to Nintendo's staunchest fans. The DS game was where the franchise turned into a breakout hit, but Nintendo clearly misread the current mood if it thought Crosso was enough for the core gamer this Winter.

The problem with Animal Crossing is that it looks practically identical to the games in the series before it. Far from being the leap forward in the series that fans were hoping for, at present it looks like a phenomenally lazy update.

Yeah, I totally agree. I do think the slight tweaks will wind up affecting it significantly enough to make it a worthwhile purchase (DLC has the potential to get it over the 'three-month* itch') but it could have really shaken up the series and made it more appealing to those who own the previous two and are wondering what's so different this time.


*replace with boredom threshold of your own choosing

I think they know the Wii will still be a huge Christmas seller this year regardless of any new games out for it. Maybe they are holding all thier big games back for 2009-2010 when/if the Wii sales start to slow down.

Eighthours wrote:

Hero of Canton wrote:The surprise with which Reggie said (to paraphrase slightly) "What about Animal Crossing?" leads me to believe that Nintendo didn't consider that a particularly 'casual' title. That's perhaps because the GC version was very much a cult hit, appealing most to Nintendo's staunchest fans. The DS game was where the franchise turned into a breakout hit, but Nintendo clearly misread the current mood if it thought Crosso was enough for the core gamer this Winter.

The problem with Animal Crossing is that it looks practically identical to the games in the series before it. Far from being the leap forward in the series that fans were hoping for, at present it looks like a phenomenally lazy update.

Beat me to it - bang on. Reggie had promised a hardcore game - it was always blatantly obvious he thought this was it. No, Mr Reggie definitely not; not unless you've put the last two years into some revolutionary advancements which patently you have not. The rather sad irony is that I actually see this being the next big 'casuals' game, properly marketed, off the back of the ds version, (could well shift more than that music 'thing'). People who played it on cube just ain't going to bother - cue lots of people telling me otherwise. People who played it on ds might still see it as a trade up.

Having read all of the above, I still thing Nintendo have made their first serious mistake this generation. I think they've made it our of sheer complacency; and I think that was only too obvious at e3.

Personally I'm not too bothered. If I spend the next six months with nothing to play I ain't too worried. Just have to save me some money.

I don't think its complacency so much as misjudging its audience. Though I suppose if you're doing that, then complacency is a potential catalyst for getting a little out-of-touch.

They're still guaranteed to sell out again this christmas, so they really haven't ballsed up at all in any real sense.

MCN wrote:They're still guaranteed to sell out again this christmas, so they really haven't ballsed up at all in any real sense.

That is most certainly true.

something fishy wrote:

MCN wrote:They're still guaranteed to sell out again this christmas, so they really haven't ballsed up at all in any real sense.

That is most certainly true.

Exactly, ever since the Wii was released, it's been sold out constantly everywhere. Nintendo have done a very good job with the way they are selling these, rather than sending out (number), they send out small shipments to keep people waiting for more, which would boost their sales all year round, not just for a small part of the year.

Eighthours wrote:

Hero of Canton wrote:The surprise with which Reggie said (to paraphrase slightly) "What about Animal Crossing?" leads me to believe that Nintendo didn't consider that a particularly 'casual' title. That's perhaps because the GC version was very much a cult hit, appealing most to Nintendo's staunchest fans. The DS game was where the franchise turned into a breakout hit, but Nintendo clearly misread the current mood if it thought Crosso was enough for the core gamer this Winter.

The problem with Animal Crossing is that it looks practically identical to the games in the series before it. Far from being the leap forward in the series that fans were hoping for, at present it looks like a phenomenally lazy update.

Thing is though, go back as far as Animal Forest on the N64, and it STILL looks damn near identical, if you discount the sphere world effect from the DS incarnation.

The question of AC's evolution is in the new functionality that the latest incarnation will provide, and that can't be tested till we lay our hands on a copy.

Overall, no, they're doing better than they've ever done before.

But in my eye, yes, the lack of a sound line-up (in my eyes) for Christmas has ensured that Nintendo doesn't get a penny of my money for the rest of this year. I've also bought my first ever non-Nintendo console too. :\