If you could change one 2016 outcome which would you pick - Brexit or President Trump?

Poser wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Poser wrote:

Preezy wrote:

Poser wrote:Brexit. I'll feel wounded by that for years.

I did see an article putting forward the idea that actually, for post-Brexit Britain, Trump is the better president.

Link? Wouldn't mind reading it.

Sorry, should have added that.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/do ... r-britain/

I think the opening paragraph of that clearly shows where the authors support lies.

Well, yes, but I'll take any possible positive at this stage.

Rod Liddle is a horrible human being.

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Qikz wrote:Trump may be a giant douche, but at least he doesn't seem to want to start a strawberry floating war with Russia.

No, because he's Putin's good little puppet, and he'll let Russia ride roughshod over eastern Europe instead.

Better that than a war between Russia and the US if I'm being brutally honest.

lex-man wrote:Rod Liddle is a horrible human being.

Yep.

The overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery and crimes of sexual violence in London is carried out by young men from the African-Caribbean community. Of course, in return, we have rap music, goat curry and a far more vibrant and diverse understanding of cultures which were once alien to us. For which, many thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddl ... and_racism

Qikz wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Qikz wrote:Trump may be a giant douche, but at least he doesn't seem to want to start a strawberry floating war with Russia.

No, because he's Putin's good little puppet, and he'll let Russia ride roughshod over eastern Europe instead.

Better that than a war between Russia and the US if I'm being brutally honest.

Where would you stop Russia? When they entered Poland?

Poland and the Carpathian Mountains are where the west needs to meet Russia. As much as we might want to protect them, the Baltic states and the larger countries nearby are all but indefensible, but the Polish/Carpathian line needs to hold because beyond that lies Germany and the industrial and economic heart of Europe.

lex-man wrote:I really think we could see a massive shift in world power.

Yeah I think a more inward and backward looking US will likely speed up China's ascension to global superpower.

It looks like they'd pretty much hand the renewable energy market to China too if Trump follows through on his promises. He said he'll repeal all federal spending on clean energy, including R&D for wind, solar, nuclear power, and electric vehicles, plus pull out of the Paris climate deal, scrap all the major regulations put in place to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, scrap the Environmental Protection Agency (and the Department of Education, lol). According to Trump, climate change is a Chinese conspiracy!

You'd hope that was all just a load of gooseberry fool he spouted to get elected...

Probably Brexit.

Trump will either be shot or quit when he realises a) it's hard work and b) much more executive and policy based than his tiny mind can deal with.

Russia honestly doesn't gain anything from invading Eastern Europe again. Putin may be your stereotypical villain, but he's not a total idiot.

Lucien wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Qikz wrote:Trump may be a giant douche, but at least he doesn't seem to want to start a strawberry floating war with Russia.

No, because he's Putin's good little puppet, and he'll let Russia ride roughshod over eastern Europe instead.

Better that than a war between Russia and the US if I'm being brutally honest.

Where would you stop Russia? When they entered Poland?

I'm curious which eastern European countries you think Russia is going to invade?

You're aware they've already invaded and annexed part of Ukraine?

Hexx wrote:Trump will either be shot or quit when he realises a) it's hard work and b) much more executive and policy based than his tiny mind can deal with.

I've heard loads of people say that they reckon Trump will get himself assassinated. But there's a fundamental flaw with this idea - all of the crazy people with guns voted for him!

Preezy wrote:

Hexx wrote:Trump will either be shot or quit when he realises a) it's hard work and b) much more executive and policy based than his tiny mind can deal with.

I've heard loads of people say that they reckon Trump will get himself assassinated. But there's a fundamental flaw with this idea - all of the crazy people with guns voted for him!

Well yeah. Who do you think's going to shoot him when he can't deliver on bigoted lies and fantasies.

Good point

Garth wrote:

lex-man wrote:I really think we could see a massive shift in world power.

Yeah I think a more inward and backward looking US will likely speed up China's ascension to global superpower.

It looks like they'd pretty much hand the renewable energy market to China too if Trump follows through on his promises. He said he'll repeal all federal spending on clean energy, including R&D for wind, solar, nuclear power, and electric vehicles, plus pull out of the Paris climate deal, scrap all the major regulations put in place to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, scrap the Environmental Protection Agency (and the Department of Education, lol). According to Trump, climate change is a Chinese conspiracy!

You'd hope that was all just a load of gooseberry fool he spouted to get elected...

If Germany can pull the EU sans UK together they would have a good chance of being a real world power. Especially, if they manage to drain the UK of industry and skilled workforce. I'm about ready to pull out, if I get the chance.

Lucien wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Qikz wrote:Trump may be a giant douche, but at least he doesn't seem to want to start a strawberry floating war with Russia.

No, because he's Putin's good little puppet, and he'll let Russia ride roughshod over eastern Europe instead.

Better that than a war between Russia and the US if I'm being brutally honest.

Where would you stop Russia? When they entered Poland?

I'm curious which eastern European countries you think Russia is going to invade?

They're already supporting, arming and probably training the Ukrainian separatists, and took Crimea from Ukraine not long ago.

The Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are also easy targets. NATO couldn't hope to hold them if Russia were to launch an aggressive annexation campaign against them - but still they've put 300,000 NATO troops on high alert as tensions between Russia and the Baltic states even now escalate. Russia is apparently moving nuclear-powered warships into the Baltic Sea to check the troop buildup.

It's no longer academic, it's no longer pie in the sky conspiracy theory fantasizing, it's a real and present event.

I feel like Trump winning provides a global legitimisation of malicious nationalism and hate crime, whereas Brexit only really did that for the UK and perhaps certain areas of western Europe.

I also worry about the global future of renewable energy because of Trump. Again, Brexit can't have quite the same impact.

If the US pulls out of NATO then Russia might go for it. I imagine that the UK might back out of the fight because of Brexit and ties to the US. Also that could mean other countries pulling or taking their time to send troops.

Lucien wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Qikz wrote:Trump may be a giant douche, but at least he doesn't seem to want to start a strawberry floating war with Russia.

No, because he's Putin's good little puppet, and he'll let Russia ride roughshod over eastern Europe instead.

Better that than a war between Russia and the US if I'm being brutally honest.

Where would you stop Russia? When they entered Poland?

I'm curious which Eastern European countries you think Russia is going to invade?

Staydead commented that he would let Russia walk over Eastern Europe, I asked where he would draw the line. I never said Russia would.

As has already been pointed out though, Russia already has part of Ukraine and has had a war with Georgia in the recent past. What makes you so sure Putin will not invade any others?

Qikz wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Qikz wrote:Trump may be a giant douche, but at least he doesn't seem to want to start a strawberry floating war with Russia.

No, because he's Putin's good little puppet, and he'll let Russia ride roughshod over eastern Europe instead.

Better that than a war between Russia and the US if I'm being brutally honest.

Clinton wouldn't have gone to war with Russia so what you're saying is irrelevant.

Lucien wrote:

Moggy wrote:Staydead commented that he would let Russia walk over Eastern Europe, I asked where he would draw the line. I never said Russia would.

As has already been pointed out though, Russia already has part of Ukraine and has had a war with Georgia in the recent past. What makes you so sure Putin will not invade any others?

Fair enough on the first bit.

Russia has invaded non-NATO countries. The only countries sitting beside it in Eastern Europe now are its military allies in the CSTO, or they're NATO countries -- except for Finland and Ukraine and Georgia; those three countries have no protection and if they were invaded, America would do nothing whoever was in power... Trump, Obama, Clinton.

Trying to invade any NATO country would be insane. I'm sure Putin doesn't want the 1.5 million people of Estonia so badly he'd risk nuclear armageddon to get them.

Edit: Finland is in the EU, so I doubt Russia wants to start anything there.

And yet Trump has spoken about weakening NATO...

Lucien wrote:

Moggy wrote:And yet Trump has spoken about weakening NATO...

Even if America left NATO altogether we'd still be fine, so long as we've nukes anyway.

I haven't mentioned us.