Inside North Korea

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Preezy
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Preezy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:58 pm

Added that to my Watch Later list, cheers Squinty.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by DML » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:42 pm

That documentary was fascinating.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:38 pm

This one is also interesting, only 24mins long. Interestingly they are taken to see the same Korean couple (teachers) that live in the new apartment.

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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Preezy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:46 pm

They're probably actors and the apartment is a set.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Squinty » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:25 am

Well I know what I'm watching tonight. Cheers Star.

I read an article by a teacher who escaped NK and said that they didn't value teachers at all. She ended up selling odd ends at a market stall before she escaped.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by degoose » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:30 am

I know this is not about North Korea but for other dictator lead countries i'd recommend watching the 3 part mini documentaries on bbc iplayer called Dictatorland. It's i guess you could call it more light hearted if you can be regarding dictatorships but it's a good watch. Never had a clue Belarus was under a dictatorship, they even still have the KEGB.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Moggy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:35 am

degoose wrote:I know this is not about North Korea but for other dictator lead countries i'd recommend watching the 3 part mini documentaries on bbc iplayer called Dictatorland. It's i guess you could call it more light hearted if you can be regarding dictatorships but it's a good watch. Never had a clue Belarus was under a dictatorship, they even still have the KEGB.


I can't remember his name, but the dictator of Belarus is known as the last dictator in Europe.

It's actually pretty impressive how Europe has changed over the last 3 or 4 decades. It really wasn't very long ago that most of the east of the continent was controlled by the iron grip of the USSR and Spain and Portugal were ruled by brutal dictators.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by degoose » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:51 am

Moggy wrote:
degoose wrote:I know this is not about North Korea but for other dictator lead countries i'd recommend watching the 3 part mini documentaries on bbc iplayer called Dictatorland. It's i guess you could call it more light hearted if you can be regarding dictatorships but it's a good watch. Never had a clue Belarus was under a dictatorship, they even still have the KEGB.


I can't remember his name, but the dictator of Belarus is known as the last dictator in Europe.

It's actually pretty impressive how Europe has changed over the last 3 or 4 decades. It really wasn't very long ago that most of the east of the continent was controlled by the iron grip of the USSR and Spain and Portugal were ruled by brutal dictators.


yeah he's the last one about. Lukashenko is his name and has been in power for about 20 years now and was great friends with Putin and had strong ties with Russia still but in recent years he has supposedly been scared of Russia invading similar to the whole Ukraine situation and taking over Belarus or parts of it.From what i read after watching the documentary Lukashenko has been dealing more and more with the EU due to his worry about Russia and he also denied Russia a lot of things such as allowing a Russian airbase in Belarus. Seems he has now been pissing off Russia more and more. I don't think it will be long until this dictatorship will go.

Below is the link to the documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04xl8b9/dictatorland-series-1-2-belarus
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Moggy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:55 am

degoose wrote:
Moggy wrote:
degoose wrote:I know this is not about North Korea but for other dictator lead countries i'd recommend watching the 3 part mini documentaries on bbc iplayer called Dictatorland. It's i guess you could call it more light hearted if you can be regarding dictatorships but it's a good watch. Never had a clue Belarus was under a dictatorship, they even still have the KEGB.


I can't remember his name, but the dictator of Belarus is known as the last dictator in Europe.

It's actually pretty impressive how Europe has changed over the last 3 or 4 decades. It really wasn't very long ago that most of the east of the continent was controlled by the iron grip of the USSR and Spain and Portugal were ruled by brutal dictators.


yeah he's the last one about. Lukashenko is his name and has been in power for about 20 years now and was great friends with Putin and had strong ties with Russia still but in recent years he has supposedly been scared of Russia invading similar to the whole Ukraine situation and taking over Belarus or parts of it.From what i read after watching the documentary Lukashenko has been dealing more and more with the EU due to his worry about Russia and he also denied Russia a lot of things such as allowing a Russian airbase in Belarus. Seems he has now been pissing off Russia more and more. I don't think it will be long until this dictatorship will go.

Below is the link to the documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04xl8b9/dictatorland-series-1-2-belarus


Cheers, I'll try and give that a watch, sounds interesting.

To try and stay on topic ( ;) ) I wonder how badly a Korea reunion would mess up South Korea, even if it was a voluntary thing. West Germany took a massive hit when it reunified with East Germany, I imagine that Korea would be hit economically far harder than that.

Even if the USA, Japan and China worked together on removing the North Korean leadership, it would take a huge sum of cash and decades to rebuild Korea into a decent place.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Preezy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:07 am

Moggy wrote:Even if the USA, Japan and China worked together on removing the North Korean leadership, it would take a huge sum of cash and decades to rebuild Korea into a decent place.

Better that than the current state of affairs.

As the classic Korean saying goes - "If you want to make a Korean omlette you have to smash a few imperialist aggressor eggs and then praise the Kim dynasty until your knees bleed."
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Squinty » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:15 am

A lot of interesting documentary links flying around in here. Really good stuff, gives me plenty to watch.

Do the South Koreans really want reunification? I was under the impression that the general population don't really care. They would be saddled with a people that would be an absolute drain on their resources, and the more staunch supporters of the dynasty may never integrate successfully.

Again this is just the impression I get, may not be accurate.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Moggy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:16 am

Preezy wrote:
Moggy wrote:Even if the USA, Japan and China worked together on removing the North Korean leadership, it would take a huge sum of cash and decades to rebuild Korea into a decent place.

Better that than the current state of affairs.


For who?

It would definitely be better for the ordinary North Korean people. No arguments there.

Would it be better for South Korea? Would they want millions of poverty stricken people that they would be responsible for looking after?

Better for China? Maybe, but they would run the risk of millions of people streaming across their border.

Better for the USA? Maybe, but does the USA want to pay billions on a war and then further 100s of billions on the rebuilding (get Mexico to pay!)?

And all of that is ignoring the death toll from the actual war that is likely to be terrifyingly high.

In the long run it would probably be for the best, but the long run is decades down the line.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by The Watching Artist » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:18 am

Squinty wrote:
degoose wrote:What was the film, it also intrigues me. I watched one on Netflix called The Propaganda Game and there is one other on Netflix i'm going to watch some time soon.


Actually just found it on YouTube. I have not watched this one before. You might enjoy it.


Thanks Squinty :wub:
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Preezy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:36 am

Moggy wrote:
Preezy wrote:
Moggy wrote:Even if the USA, Japan and China worked together on removing the North Korean leadership, it would take a huge sum of cash and decades to rebuild Korea into a decent place.

Better that than the current state of affairs.


For who?

It would definitely be better for the ordinary North Korean people. No arguments there.

Would it be better for South Korea? Would they want millions of poverty stricken people that they would be responsible for looking after?

Better for China? Maybe, but they would run the risk of millions of people streaming across their border.

Better for the USA? Maybe, but does the USA want to pay billions on a war and then further 100s of billions on the rebuilding (get Mexico to pay!)?

And all of that is ignoring the death toll from the actual war that is likely to be terrifyingly high.

In the long run it would probably be for the best, but the long run is decades down the line.

North Koreans - no longer living under a brutal dictatorship, would have access to modern TV shows like Eurotrash and Knotts Landing.
South Koreans - no longer living next door to a brutal dictatorship. Not having a madman up the road would mean less money spent on the military, funds that could aid in the development of the North.
China - would have a new useful trade partner in the new Unified Korea™. Agreed though they might have some refguees to deal with and might not be happy with a US ally on their doorstep. They'd get over that though once the dollars pour in.
USA - got to justify that military spending somehow, Korea would be a perfect place to focus on.

Sure millions will die, but it's a means to an end, and that end being the North getting modern TV. Can't stress that point enough.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Moggy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:01 am

Preezy wrote:North Koreans - no longer living under a brutal dictatorship, would have access to modern TV shows like Eurotrash and Knotts Landing.


True. But they will be looking at decades of political and financial hardship. Plus potentially millions of deaths.

South Koreans - no longer living next door to a brutal dictatorship. Not having a madman up the road would mean less money spent on the military, funds that could aid in the development of the North.


I doubt they will reduce military spending by much, especially as they will just have one party state China up the road instead. And the rebuilding and reintegrating of North Korea would bankrupt them.

China - would have a new useful trade partner in the new Unified Korea™. Agreed though they might have some refguees to deal with and might not be happy with a US ally on their doorstep. They'd get over that though once the dollars pour in.


What dollars? Korea would be on its knees for decades.

USA - got to justify that military spending somehow, Korea would be a perfect place to focus on.


That military spending barely coped with Iraq and Afghanistan. North Korea would probably be a harder fought war than either of those. Plus this time they will be expected to help pay for the clear up.

Sure millions will die, but it's a means to an end, and that end being the North getting modern TV. Can't stress that point enough.


A means to an end. Lovely.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Karl » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:08 am

I think the US invading North Korea and then giving it to South Korea won't work -- it would annoy China too much to have that kind of gung-ho Western intervention on their doorstep, even if it's good for the region in the long term.

The US and China need to work together on this, which realistically means the UN (or perhaps a trilateral committee with input from the US, China, & South Korea) governing North Korea until it's stable and no longer in total crisis, and then North Koreans having a vote on whether they wish to join China, South Korea, or remain an independent nation.

Unfortunately that solution would require extremely tight diplomacy which I don't think The Donald is capable of.
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Preezy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:11 am

Moggy wrote:[quote="Preezy
Sure millions will die, but it's a means to an end, and that end being the North getting modern TV. Can't stress that point enough.


A means to an end. Lovely.

Aaaaand he bit ;) :wub:
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Moggy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:12 am

Preezy wrote:
Moggy wrote:[quote="Preezy
Sure millions will die, but it's a means to an end, and that end being the North getting modern TV. Can't stress that point enough.


A means to an end. Lovely.

Aaaaand he bit ;) :wub:


Staydead defence. :dread:
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Preezy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:14 am

Moggy wrote:
Preezy wrote:
Moggy wrote:[quote="Preezy
Sure millions will die, but it's a means to an end, and that end being the North getting modern TV. Can't stress that point enough.


A means to an end. Lovely.

Aaaaand he bit ;) :wub:


Staydead defence. :dread:

Not this time. I genuinely posted thinking "I bet Moggy picks up on that one" :lol:

Of course I don't really think it's a means to an end :roll:
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PostRe: Inside North Korea
by Moggy » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:17 am

Preezy wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Preezy wrote:
Moggy wrote:[quote="Preezy
Sure millions will die, but it's a means to an end, and that end being the North getting modern TV. Can't stress that point enough.


A means to an end. Lovely.

Aaaaand he bit ;) :wub:


Staydead defence. :dread:

Not this time. I genuinely posted thinking "I bet Moggy picks up on that one" :lol:

Of course I don't really think it's a means to an end :roll:


I know, your mention of Knotts Landing and Eurotrash kind of gave away that you were not being 100% serious.

There are people out there though that genuinely think millions of deaths are just "a means to an end" or "collateral damage". It's hard to know what you think about it and so I answered that point.

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