KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...

Well this topic has made for an interesting read!

On the subject of the original advert - it's a fairly crap ad but I wouldn't call it offensive - misleading to a certain degree potentially, and if I shared a particularly close affinity for poultry I might consider it somewhat crass to parade a chicken around for the purposes of selling more chicken based fast food products, however I'm finding it hard to muster up too much hatred.

As for the debate on food standards, whether we should eat so much meat etc. Whilst I'm very much a carnivore the welfare of animals is still on my radar, I try to buy organic or other products where I can have some degree of confidence in the standards in which those animals were kept. There is no doubt that there exist practices in the farming industry worldwide which fall below what I would say we should hold as acceptable as a modern society - I think I said it in a previous post on this subject but my general view is that I am happy eating meat and other animal produce (milk, eggs etc.) but that doesn't mean we have to be total dicks to animals in order to facilitate this.

I guess it comes down to what value we place on livestock - are they simply commodities that we should be able to do whatever we want with, or are they creatures that we should show a degree of care/respect for in order to benefit from their meat/produce? Or, as is the vegan position, should we just be leaving them alone entirely? I don't know - there obviously isn't a "true" answer to that question as all positions have a valid basis. But where we sit on that issue effectively determines our position with respect to the cost/benefit analysis of eating these products - is the benefit we get (eating something we enjoy) worth the cost it entails (impacting the life of, and ultimately killing, an animal).

twitter.com/kfc/status/903368482435227648

Errkal wrote:

Blue Eyes wrote:

Errkal wrote:

Pancake wrote:

Trying to keep the discussion balanced but I find it difficult to dispute that vegans have the moral high ground over those of us who choose to eat meat.

I’m trying to tread carefully because I’m no philosopher and morality is complex, so sticking with the basic definition that it means principles of right and wrong:

You can argue, as many of you would be able to do better than I can, that eating meat is not inherently wrong because animals are not sapient, cannot be oppressed, etc.

However, it would be extremely difficult to argue that eating meat is right. The only reason to eat meat (that I can think of) is that it tastes good but that does not make it right. You can justify eating meat by arguing that animals are not sapient, cannot be oppressed, etc., but this is not a reason to eat meat, this does not make it right.

You could try to argue that your dietary choice was amoral and that it does not matter what you choose to eat but that would be to imply that our dietary choices have no consequences, which I think is demonstrably untrue. It is foolish to deny that many animals are kept in poor and uncomfortable conditions, regardless of current EU legislation. It is not a question of whether there are consequences or not, it is a question of whether you are bothered by those consequences or not.

I don’t think it is possible to argue that eating a vegan diet is wrong, although I would be interested to hear any counter arguments to that. ‘Bacon’ is not a counter argument.

However, I think you could argue that refusing to eat meat is right because there are clear benefits to doing so: benefits to your health; benefits to the environment; benefits to animal welfare.

I guess I’m saying neither is wrong but one is more right than the other.

Possibly. Cue loads of people calling me an idiot.

Dick.

Nar your about right I'd say, it would be better for the environment if we all ate plants instead. Personally, I like meat and the taste so I kind of just accept that for that to happen animals gots to die.

If there was a way to "grow" meat I would be fine with it, it doesn't have to be an animal.

Conditions they are raised in could be better, but I'm guilty of buying cheaper less well-raised meat pretty often just because my budget doesn't allow for me to not too and I don't really know enough about veggie cooking to come up with meals and things that feel "substantial" enough for a meal.

You could Google how to cook vegetables. I fry the banana splits in goose fat.

I mean like "proper" meals and things, I have done a few and they always leave me feeling not quite full or satisfied. There is something about meat in food that just makes the meal seem complete.

Occasionally I get something that works well, like I have a curry pie recipe that works brilliantly, and things like tomato pastas and such are great.

I could probably manage as a veggie with cheese and such but to go full on Vegan would be cutting out way way way too much of what I enjoy.

Try the Linda McCartney meats. They're meats that are grown, ticking your requirement.

The 1/2lb 'beef' burgers are really good
They have 1/2lb pulled 'pork' ones too although I'm not a fan of pulled pork
Sausages (avoid the onion and rosemary ones)

There is a vegan bacon. Not had it myself and I'm not sure who makes it but apparently it's really good. Bacons probably the easiest meat to recreate

They'll all work out cheaper than meat too so that'll help your budget. Although I wouldn't eat them too often because while they are better alternatives to the planet and your wallet, they're just as bad as real meat for your health.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

To appear in KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial.

Woah, okay so here's my opinion on eating meat as a vegetarian.

I don't have a problem with people eating meat so long as they don't try and pretend they care about animals.

For example, my step dad just doesn't like animals and he eats meat, I respect him for his honesty.

People go call themselves animal lovers and do nothing to improve the lives of animals (other than their own pets) really bug me on the other hand.

Also, quorn bacon is pretty good, doesn't taste much different apart from being less greasy and having a nicer texture (in my opinion, the chewyness and fatiness of normal bacon always made me feel like I was a second away from choking on it)

I'm an animal lover and I don't have a problem eating meat because those animals have been bred for that purpose. Not as if I'm eating lions plucked from the Serengeti.

Mafro wrote:I'm an animal lover and I don't have a problem eating meat because those animals have been bred for that purpose. Not as if I'm eating lions plucked from the Serengeti.

A lion would eat you given half the chance. strawberry float 'em, they should get better at evolution and work their way up the food chain.

Seriously though, I love meat. My girlfriend makes us buy the organic, corn fed, comes with a DVD of their life stuff so I like to think we're doing our bit.

Vegetarians that also keep plants and do gardening

More sanctimonious nonsense.

I like animals: given a choice my preference would be to ensure livestock are comfortable during their lives and minimise the discomfort they feel when taken for slaughter. They can have a pleasant existence while also ultimately fulfilling the purpose for which they are bred. It's not mutually exclusive.

Conditions could still be improved, but that needs a legislative process of iteration on livestock welfare regulations, not this faction of weirdos (I know, not all vegans) telling the 95% of us who eat meat that we're morally deficient.

Fade wrote:Woah, okay so here's my opinion on eating meat as a vegetarian.

I don't have a problem with people eating meat so long as they don't try and pretend they care about animals.

For example, my step dad just doesn't like animals and he eats meat, I respect him for his honesty.

People go call themselves animal lovers and do nothing to improve the lives of animals (other than their own pets) really bug me on the other hand

It's just like environmentalists who use electricity or travel in cars/planes.

Mafro wrote:I'm an animal lover and I don't have a problem eating meat because those animals have been bred for that purpose. Not as if I'm eating lions plucked from the Serengeti.

No...

But Lions aren't any more intelligent than pigs and cows, and they all have the same capacity to feel emotions/pain.

If you truly care about animals then you would care about all animals. Not just exotic/pretty ones, or ones that are convenient for you to care about.

I care for animals and eat meat, pigs cows etc. are bred for eating that's what they are for. At this point if we stopped farming then many would go extinct.
As has been said many times you don't eat meat congrats well done, don't look down on othwrs that do like it makes you social or some way better.

Fade wrote:But Lions aren't any more intelligent than pigs and cows, and they all have the same capacity to feel emotions/pain. If you truly care about animals then you would care about all animals. Not just exotic/pretty ones, or ones that are convenient for you to care about.

Eating meat is not incompatible with 'caring about animals'.

I would eat pretty much any non-endangered animal. I still would prefer for them to have a decent existence before they're eaten. No matter how obvious it may seem to you there is no hypocrisy there: it's OK to like animals but also believe it is acceptable to - as humanely as possible, for the purpose of eating - kill them.

I don't think this planet has the land space for the animals to have a happy and decent life before being turned in to food.

Their life expectancy is dramatically reduced (obviously) and they often live in overcrowded conditions amongst other dead animals that weren't strong enough

BID0 wrote: they often live in overcrowded conditions amongst other dead animals that weren't strong enough

Now that exaggerating, maybe in parts of the world but we have welfare laws etc. You can also mitigate that by buying higher welfare.

Errkal wrote:

BID0 wrote: they often live in overcrowded conditions amongst other dead animals that weren't strong enough

Now that exaggerating, maybe in parts of the world but we have welfare laws etc. You can also mitigate that by buying higher welfare.

Not really. I've stopped off at farms in the UK and slaughterhouses and seen it with my own eyes. There's also plenty of videos on YouTube/online that also prove my point.

The worst offender is probably the egg industry rather than meat however.

Spot on Lucien and Bido.

I'll admit that my consumption of eggs and milk still causes suffering to animals. I just find it funny how some people can't admit that. It's not a big deal, just be honest with yourself.

Like I said on the last page, I don't have a problem with people eating meat so long as they are honest about it. If someone said to me "I only really care about pets, I don't care about other animals" I'd be like "Okay that's fine"

Fade wrote:

Mafro wrote:I'm an animal lover and I don't have a problem eating meat because those animals have been bred for that purpose. Not as if I'm eating lions plucked from the Serengeti.

No...

But Lions aren't any more intelligent than pigs and cows, and they all have the same capacity to feel emotions/pain.

If you truly care about animals then you would care about all animals. Not just exotic/pretty ones, or ones that are convenient for you to care about.

The sad thing is, those animals that we eat wouldn't be alive if they hadn't been born specifically to be eaten later. That's what farming is. I'd rather eat the animals that were born to serve a purpose, than let their life and death be for naught.

Lucien wrote:

Mafro wrote:I'm an animal lover and I don't have a problem eating meat because those animals have been bred for that purpose. Not as if I'm eating lions plucked from the Serengeti.

The issue with that is you say it's ok because animals have been bred for that purpose, but that line won't carry to other things. For example you wouldn't be for human slavery if slaves were bred for that purpose, or perhaps bull fighting if bulls were bred for that purpose.

Dreadful examples.