KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...

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BID0
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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by BID0 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:52 pm

Jenuall wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Skarjo wrote:I don't grasp what is inherently wrong about eating meat. There are environmental and social issues linked to eating meat, sure, but there are also environmental and social issues from having all varieties fruit and veg available all year round.

What's the environmental impact of flying tonnes of exotic plants and veg around the world so that all veg is always available all the time, pesky old-timey concerns like being 'in-season' be damned? What's the social impact of the child labour used on coffee farms? What's the social impact on starving subsistence farmers who're no longer able to feed themselves because the international market for Quinoa has priced them out of their own market?

Unless you grow all your food out of your own personal allotment (ground which could be used for affordable public housing - ah gooseberry fool even that has a social consequence) then every dietary choice we make is a trade off. There's no 'superior' choice.


Any vegan/veggie advocates addressed some of these concerns yet? How much of a nutritionally sufficient plant based diet is actually grown locally? How much is it possible to grow locally?

Flying plants around the world is not eco-friendly.

You can get everything the body needs locally other than vitamin B12. What exactly can't you find locally? Type it in to google and it'll tell you what foods contain it.


Interesting. As someone from the UK what would my locally sourced, nutritionally sufficient diet look like throughout the seasons?

Genuinely curious as my previous understanding was that this was not achievable. If it is theoretically possible then were I to consider adopting it other considerations would have to be cost and, of course, how tasty and varied it can be.

It sounds like you're looking at going completely raw then? No processed foods at all?

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Karl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:23 pm

Pancake wrote:I'm not telling you what to eat. I'm not telling you to go vegan. I'm not saying eating meat is wrong. I'm just pointing out that a vegan diet is logically better.


Sure! There is a rationally-best diet. It would provide the precise nutrients you need with minimal carbon footprint. I don't know exactly what that diet would look like, but I do know that I'd rather choke to death on my own lumpy shite than eat it. ;)

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Karl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:28 pm

mic wrote:I just read this whole thread and, worryingly, the question that stands out in my mind is this - why is bestiality illegal? If it's a matter of consent, surely they'd rather be shagged than eaten?


Really?

It's possible to kill an animal humanely, and it serves a purpose society recognises as useful. It's probably not possible to screw an animal humanely, and it doesn't achieve anything beyond the perverse.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Green Gecko » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:30 pm

This thread

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Moggy
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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Moggy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:31 pm

Karl wrote:
mic wrote:I just read this whole thread and, worryingly, the question that stands out in my mind is this - why is bestiality illegal? If it's a matter of consent, surely they'd rather be shagged than eaten?


Really?

It's possible to kill an animal humanely, and it serves a purpose society recognises as useful. It's probably not possible to screw an animal humanely, and it doesn't achieve anything beyond the perverse.


strawberry float off Karl, Golden Retrievers are asking for it, why else would they have all that luscious yellow fur? :datass:

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Ad7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:35 pm

jiggles wrote:I have nothing to contribute to this conversation, but this is sort of related and I saw it last night and it made me laugh so maybe it will make you laugh too.





:lol:

So strawberry floating true on the last one too, was speaking to someone the other day and asked how his weekend was.

"Great thanks, we went for a nice walk and as we're vegan, found a nice vegan restaurant to eat at."

:fp:

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by KK » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:43 pm

"As a gay man..."
"As a vegan..."

Top 2, every time.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by KjGarly » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:45 pm

mic wrote:I just read this whole thread and, worryingly, the question that stands out in my mind is this - why is bestiality illegal? If it's a matter of consent, surely they'd rather be shagged than eaten?

Also, is it legal to kill and eat pets?


Higher offence than noncing a kid, something I learned watching that 24 hours in Police custody on C4.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Labo Banana Split » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:40 pm

Lucien wrote:Soya milk is best for coffees, they say

I don't know who they are but they are wrong - soya milk doesn't dissolve properly in coffee.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Rocsteady » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:50 pm

BID0 wrote:
Pedz wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:What would I put on my Shredded Wheat if not glorious milk? What would I put in long coffee?!


Lots of alternative milks for cereal (I use rice milk). Soya milk is best for coffees, they say: haven't tried it though since I drink green tea.


What if you don't like alternative mills?

There are hundreds of plants milks these days and more and more hit the shelves each day. Although Rice milk is pretty gross when I tried it recently :shifty:



I think the argument is that you can get a lot more nutrients from going straight to the source (plants) rather than getting these things indirectly through consuming animal product that ate those nutrients first. No one here is disputing that meat tastes good etc, that's all subjective. But you really can't claim things like "I hate the argument that humans shouldn't drink milk as since it's primarily for calves it cannot be good for us: it's so easily demonstrably false i don't understand why anyone would make it." and not be able to back it up. Sure you can get some calcium or vitamins but they are available in thousands of every day foods too (and without things like saturated fats and animal hormones etc), so you're getting some of the positives of plants but with the draw backs of consuming animal product, the only positive over plant based food being taste - which I would hope people here could recognise.

We have kind of gone so far from the original point that angry vegan person was trying to make, which was that milk is only produced by a mother X amount of time after having a child to help that child grow quickly in the early part of its life. After that point, the child doesn't need that same growth spurt anymore and can fend for itself/eat its natural diet.

I am guessing when Moggy says "Digesting plants is far slower than meat, it was essential for human development." is talking about how our primitive brains developed quickly historically (which I have no knowledge on really), rather than how our bodies actually digest food today, where plant foods have a far quicker transmit time through our body versus meat and dairy thanks to fiber sources which can only be found in plant based food.

Google Scholar 'milk beneficial to humans' if you like, there are loads of peer reviewed articles on there espousing the benefits of drinking milk. I'm not saying it's some magic elixir but it's a got a great blend of proteins, provides vitamins and calcium, and is a good source of calories. Just because you say other foods also have these doesn't refute the point that milk is good for us.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Fade » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:22 pm

Karl wrote:
Fade wrote:
Karl wrote:I like animals and I would eat any species that isn't endangered. I like horses and I ate horse last week. I don't think I'm crazy. You're just repeating "no you actually don't like them" -- what do you expect from this? Is it for me to change my thoughts & feelings? :?

If I caught and "humanely" killed and ate a stray cat, I don't think most people would believe me if I told them I loved cats. Why is it different when somebody else kills it for you? Genuinely curious.

If you love cats then you love cats, that would be demonstrated by your enjoyment of spending time with cats. Eating cat meat is irrelevant.

I would personally find it difficult to kill a cat that I had formed a bond with but that's just an emotive response. It doesn't mean there's anything morally wrong with cat meat. I would happily eat cat meat in a restaurant.

Usually when you love something it signifies that you care about it.

I love my family, that is signified by the fact that I care about their well-being and happiness. That's not demonstrated just by spending time with them.

With all due respect Karl you sound like a bit of a robot, "Just an emotive response" :lol: beep boop

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Karl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:28 pm

Fade wrote:.


Err? I'm happy to be in touch with my emotions, I just recognise that "it makes me feel bad :( " isn't a relevant argument in this discussion.

I love my cat but I don't connect with him in the same way that I do my mother, close friends, or partner. Because he's a cat.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Fade » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 pm

Skarjo wrote:
Fade wrote:
Karl wrote:I like animals and I would eat any species that isn't endangered. I like horses and I ate horse last week. I don't think I'm crazy. You're just repeating "no you actually don't like them" -- what do you expect from this? Is it for me to change my thoughts & feelings? :?

If I caught and "humanely" killed and ate a stray cat, I don't think most people would believe me if I told them I loved cats. Why is it different when somebody else kills it for you? Genuinely curious.


Well, you deliberately picked a meat that is not generally considered part of western cuisine, but objectively there's little to no reason why we can't be said to like animals and also eat them. If we look at any of the animals that do frequently appear in the overlap between the animals we usually keep as pets and those we keep as food (rabbits, fish, horse etc) then I don't see any real conflict.

Someone does not somehow hate rabbits because they had a rabbit stew.

No, but they do care more about their appetite than that rabbits life. That was kind of my original point. I said that I didn't like people who said they were animal lovers and then didn't care about the well being of animals. That's where this whole argument came from.

Of course they can still think rabbits are cute etc.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Fade » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Karl wrote:
Fade wrote:.


Err? I'm happy to be in touch with my emotions, I just recognise that "it makes me feel bad :( " isn't a relevant argument in this discussion.

I love my cat but I don't connect with him in the same way that I do my mother, close friends, or partner. Because he's a cat.

I think the reason we can't understand each other is because you see animals as objects

When I say animal lover, I interpret that to mean someone who cares about the happiness and well being of animals, and treats them with respect.

When you say animal lover, it seems like you mean it in the same way somebody would say they love cars.

So I think we'll just agree to disagree.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Knoyleo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:16 pm

Fade wrote:When I say animal lover, I interpret that to mean someone who cares about the happiness and well being of animals, and treats them with respect.

When you say animal lover, it seems like you mean it in the same way somebody would say they love cars.

Are you saying car lovers don't care about the wellbeing of their cars or treat them with respect? :|

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Karl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:38 pm

I mean, OK. I don't really see animals as 'objects' - it's more-wrong to kick a cat than a car - but I don't see them as 'people' either. I don't think there's any good reason when you think about what a cat is to treat it like a person. I am happy to agree to disagree on that though as I don't think either of us will change the other's mind.

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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Skarjo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:00 am

mic wrote:I just read this whole thread and, worryingly, the question that stands out in my mind is this - why is bestiality illegal? If it's a matter of consent, surely they'd rather be shagged than eaten?

Also, is it legal to kill and eat pets?


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Jenuall
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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Jenuall » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:28 pm

One subset of vegetarianism that has always confused me is those people who won't eat meat but will happily eat fish. Surely if they are abstaining from meat because they do not agree with the way the treatment of animals then how exactly is wrenching a fish from its natural habitat and leaving it to suffocate to death supposed to be acceptable?

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BID0
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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by BID0 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:21 pm

Jenuall wrote:One subset of vegetarianism that has always confused me is those people who won't eat meat but will happily eat fish. Surely if they are abstaining from meat because they do not agree with the way the treatment of animals then how exactly is wrenching a fish from its natural habitat and leaving it to suffocate to death supposed to be acceptable?

Pescetarianism? They probably pick that diet for health reasons or the environment rather than for the animals. Fish is considered healthier than other meats and some people are lactose intolerant, and while fishing is damaging to the planet it's probably better than other forms of meat farming.

You could ask the same question about vegetarianism. I don't think many do that primarily for the animals either, but for health and environmental reasons.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...
by Knoyleo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:38 pm

It's OK to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings.


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