KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...

BID0 wrote:There's nothing beneficial to the body in any kind of milk that a human adult needs in its diet. Calcium and B vitimins etc can be found in a whole host of other foods that don't need to be filtered and heated to be consumable.

You can say this about any food. No nutrient is exclusive to one single food. And I don't think "you have to prepare & cook it" is an argument against milk any more than it's an argument against pizza.

BID0 wrote:

Rocsteady wrote:I hate the argument that humans shouldn't drink milk as since it's primarily for calves it cannot be good for us: it's so easily demonstrably false i don't understand why anyone would make it.

Of all the wrong in that post you pick the one legit point it made.

It talked about adults drinking milk. No other species on this entire planet drinks milk past childbirth, and we are the only species to drink milk from another animal completely. The purpose of milk is to give an infant the nutrients it needs in life, until it's capable of eating its natural diet on its own without the help of its mother.

There's nothing beneficial to the body in any kind of milk that a human adult needs in its diet. Calcium and B vitimins etc can be found in a whole host of other foods that don't need to be filtered and heated to be consumable.

You're wrong by the way.

http://www.scielo.org.mx/pdf/therya/v1n3/v1n3a5.pdf

Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

Just out of curiosity, do you consume alcohol?

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

No worries, your claim made me curious and it was fascinating to read about the behaviour of those cats. Clever little strawberry floaters!

Here's a link to an article on the benefits of drinking milk. It's literally from the Independent so hopefully not dairy industry funded! http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 84086.html

KjGarly wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

Just out of curiosity, do you consume alcohol?

Not particularly no

BID0 wrote:

KjGarly wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

Just out of curiosity, do you consume alcohol?

Not particularly no

Nevermind then

Moggy wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

No worries, your claim made me curious and it was fascinating to read about the behaviour of those cats. Clever little strawberry floaters!

Here's a link to an article on the benefits of drinking milk. It's literally from the Independent so hopefully not dairy industry funded! http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 84086.html

It basically had no answer either way for most things and in conclusion drinking animal milk offers no benefits other than being convenient (which I guess is also subjective). And you're also likely to be lactose intolerant to dairy unless you build your body up with it over time.

KjGarly wrote:

BID0 wrote:

KjGarly wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

Just out of curiosity, do you consume alcohol?

Not particularly no

Nevermind then

I do sometimes have guiness if I'm in a spoons for example and it's free with the meal. I kind of got bored of alcohol after I was 18 and could get in to pubs legally but I'm not claiming alchohol is so obviously good for our health so it's not really a relevant talking point anyway.

BID0 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

No worries, your claim made me curious and it was fascinating to read about the behaviour of those cats. Clever little strawberry floaters!

Here's a link to an article on the benefits of drinking milk. It's literally from the Independent so hopefully not dairy industry funded! http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 84086.html

It basically had no answer either way for most things and in conclusion drinking animal milk offers no benefits other than being convenient (which I guess is also subjective). And you're also likely to be lactose intolerant to dairy unless you build your body up with it over time.

You're moving the goalposts there. You asked for non-dairy industry studies that showed milk was good for you. That article shows benefits.

Of course lactose intolerant people won't benefit, but that's like arguing nuts are terrible for people because some people have an allergy.

Your argument also wasn't "there are less convenient ways to get the same benefits", it doesn't matter if you can get the same benefits in other (less convenient!) ways, the fact is that milk drinking has benefits.

Hi thread! Long time reader, first time poster to this show, love what you've done with it so far. Personally I'm pro bacon etc but don't consider myself to be anti animal inasmuch as I'm against particular types of slaughter and means of keeping livestock.

BID0 wrote:plant diet = feeds over 3,000 people
cattle diet = feeds around 200 people or less

That's just the figures for land mass taken up. I don't believe it includes water to feed plants/cattle. And then there's the CO2 emissions to consider.

As the son of a butcher and someone unlikely to ever consider a variant diet that was not forced upon me, I have to confess my interest in this. Someone earlier in the thread (can't be bothered to trawl through and quote) said something along the lines of 'veganism is the only way the human race can progress' and I agree to an extent (even though it'd deny me most of my favourite meals). The inefficiency of maintaining our current mass means of food production, combined with the impending population explosion worldwide, means a rethink will be essential within my lifetime (at least, I hope to live so long!).

Were it up to me, my methods of dealing with the issue would be very different (minimise the impact of religious groups so as to remove the stigma of contraception thus reducing birth rates; dramatic changes in the law to improve the rights and lives of women in areas where child marriage, rape, and abuse are more common, again reducing birth rates but having other positive side effects; strict laws against ritual slaughter and inhumane living conditions, which might push up prices but would also mean slightly reduced supply and a higher QoL for the eaten) but as these are unlikely to happen and probably wouldn't be enough anyway, it's true that we're either going to see a large overall price increase in meats and some animal food products that we eat now regularly become more 'upmarket' items, as well as more unusual foodstuffs on our shelves (foods created using insects, or with artificial protein substitutes as primary ingredients, for example).

But the end result of this is probably the exact opposite of what I probably should do. Dreading a future of butterfly butties and tofu tikka masala, it just encourages me to consume as much unhealthy, wasteful animal produce as I possibly can, while I'm still able to do so.

Sorry world. I'm part of the problem but I promise I'll try and vote for the solution.

There hasn't been much good science on whether cows' milk is actually good for you or not. You'll find dodgy papers and arguments on both sides.

Meat hasn't come out so well in recent studies though (cue someone finding a paper that says otherwise as if it is gospel).

I still haven't seen a single decent attempt in this thread to argue that eating meat and dairy is beneficial. It tastes good, animals are not sapient and it's not up to the consumer to legislate against poor conditions; I agree with all of them but it does not make eating meat beneficial.

It's amazing to me how few people are willing to acknowledge this. The counter argument is seemingly 'I don't care what you eat', which is fine. I don't care what you smoke, doesn't make it beneficial to anyone or anything.

Moggy wrote:

BID0 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

No worries, your claim made me curious and it was fascinating to read about the behaviour of those cats. Clever little strawberry floaters!

Here's a link to an article on the benefits of drinking milk. It's literally from the Independent so hopefully not dairy industry funded! http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 84086.html

It basically had no answer either way for most things and in conclusion drinking animal milk offers no benefits other than being convenient (which I guess is also subjective). And you're also likely to be lactose intolerant to dairy unless you build your body up with it over time.

You're moving the goalposts there. You asked for non-dairy industry studies that showed milk was good for you. That article shows benefits.

Of course lactose intolerant people won't benefit, but that's like arguing nuts are terrible for people because some people have an allergy.

Your argument also wasn't "there are less convenient ways to get the same benefits", it doesn't matter if you can get the same benefits in other (less convenient!) ways, the fact is that milk drinking has benefits.

I'm not changing any goalposts. Every benefit that article brought up it also countered itself in the same paragraph.

The only overwhelming positive thing I could see in the article was in closing when it said "it's a lot more convenient to drink milk"

What would I put on my Shredded Wheat if not glorious milk? What would I put in long coffee?!

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:What would I put on my Shredded Wheat if not glorious milk? What would I put in long coffee?!

milk. alcohol.

BID0 wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:What would I put on my Shredded Wheat if not glorious milk? What would I put in long coffee?!

milk. alcohol.

Milk instead of milk?

Long coffee... is that like long pork?

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:

BID0 wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:What would I put on my Shredded Wheat if not glorious milk? What would I put in long coffee?!

milk. alcohol.

Milk instead of milk?

You can put whatever you want on your cereal. Although milk and Shredded Wheat seems a bit boring. Don't you put fruit or sugar on it?!

Alvin Flummux wrote:Long coffee... is that like long pork?

Proper coffee comes in small portions and does not contain milk.

Long (from the Italian word lungo) coffee is usually taken with milk.

I came out as a coffee hipster a couple of weeks ago .

BID0 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

BID0 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

BID0 wrote:Okay my bad. I never knew about feral cats drinking seal milk.

Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you too (no studies that are funded by diary industry groups mind)

No worries, your claim made me curious and it was fascinating to read about the behaviour of those cats. Clever little strawberry floaters!

Here's a link to an article on the benefits of drinking milk. It's literally from the Independent so hopefully not dairy industry funded! http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 84086.html

It basically had no answer either way for most things and in conclusion drinking animal milk offers no benefits other than being convenient (which I guess is also subjective). And you're also likely to be lactose intolerant to dairy unless you build your body up with it over time.

You're moving the goalposts there. You asked for non-dairy industry studies that showed milk was good for you. That article shows benefits.

Of course lactose intolerant people won't benefit, but that's like arguing nuts are terrible for people because some people have an allergy.

Your argument also wasn't "there are less convenient ways to get the same benefits", it doesn't matter if you can get the same benefits in other (less convenient!) ways, the fact is that milk drinking has benefits.

I'm not changing any goalposts. Every benefit that article brought up it also countered itself in the same paragraph.

The only overwhelming positive thing I could see in the article was in closing when it said "it's a lot more convenient to drink milk"

You must be literally reading a different article.

Remember, I am responding to your request of "Happy to be proven wrong about milk being good for you". That article presents several examples of how milk is good for those that can digest it.

The article concludes:

When it comes to health, the bottom line is we probably don’t need dairy in our diets – as adults – but milk and dairy foods are convenient, good value and provide lots of essential nutrients that are trickier to source from other foods. Where milk drinking is the cultural norm we have adapted to tolerate it very well and it can be very nutritious.

Conclusion is therefore that milk is good for you.

If you believe dairy farming to be wrong and/or unethical then fair enough, but let's not pretend that milk is somehow bad for humans.

Meat is just as beneficial (responding to Pancake here). Humans have a omnivore diet for a reason, it's how we developed. Digesting plants is far slower than meat, it was essential for human development. As time went on we continue to eat meat for many reasons, it tastes good (that is a legitimate argument btw) but it also gives us plenty of essential nutrients.

Of course modern humans can survive without meat and we can get the nutrients we need from other sources. No Western modern human has to have it, but it's utterly false to suggest it is not beneficial in any way.