KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...

So these 'Raw Vegans', they grow their own clothes too? How about the devices they use to post their arrogant and totally bullshit opinions on? They home grown and recycled etc?

Moggy wrote:
Pancake wrote:I don't have a problem accepting that vegans have made the superior dietary choice. It's not surprising that some of them get a little sanctimonious.

And this is why you end up with people just answering "mmm bacon". It's almost impossible to do anything else with people who have convinced themselves that they are the superior beings with wonderful morals. And don't they just love to tell everyone else just how superior they are.

Are there any benefits to eating meat other than that it tastes good?

You have been told other benefits but have brushed them aside, despite one of those benefits being the entire point of eating anything. There is nutrition in meat, it nourishes our bodies. That's a pretty damn good reason to eat something.

You can argue that we can get the same nutrition from plants and I would agree with you. But eating something else doesn't stop their being a nutritional benefit to meat.

Is being vegan environmentally sound? It is certainly more environmental than beef, but I am not sure it is when we come to other meats. Is transporting fruit and vegetables (of which a huge amount is due to the seasons) around the world really any more environmental than eating chicken that was born, raised, slaughtered and prepared within 100 miles of you?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a vegetarian or a vegan btw. You get the reactions that you do because of your attitudes towards those that don't believe the same thing as you. Veganism almost sounds like a religion, you believe yourself to be more moral, you preach to gain new converts, you refuse to look at (or completely ignore) anything that doesn't fit in with your worldview. Again, I don't care in the slightest if you avoid meat and animal products, just accept that a lot of us do not agree with you and we are not going to change just because you think you have a "superior dietary choice".

I'm not a vegan.

I just don't find it hard to accept that it would be a better diet and find it amazing how determined other people are to defend their choice.

I accept that eating meat is a worse choice.

Don't vegans fart more than regular humans? I know that they tend to waft the fart cloud towards themselves more to get a good lungfull, but any excess methane that they don't enjoy is definitely harmful to the environment.

Pancake wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Pancake wrote:I don't have a problem accepting that vegans have made the superior dietary choice. It's not surprising that some of them get a little sanctimonious.

And this is why you end up with people just answering "mmm bacon". It's almost impossible to do anything else with people who have convinced themselves that they are the superior beings with wonderful morals. And don't they just love to tell everyone else just how superior they are.

Are there any benefits to eating meat other than that it tastes good?

You have been told other benefits but have brushed them aside, despite one of those benefits being the entire point of eating anything. There is nutrition in meat, it nourishes our bodies. That's a pretty damn good reason to eat something.

You can argue that we can get the same nutrition from plants and I would agree with you. But eating something else doesn't stop their being a nutritional benefit to meat.

Is being vegan environmentally sound? It is certainly more environmental than beef, but I am not sure it is when we come to other meats. Is transporting fruit and vegetables (of which a huge amount is due to the seasons) around the world really any more environmental than eating chicken that was born, raised, slaughtered and prepared within 100 miles of you?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a vegetarian or a vegan btw. You get the reactions that you do because of your attitudes towards those that don't believe the same thing as you. Veganism almost sounds like a religion, you believe yourself to be more moral, you preach to gain new converts, you refuse to look at (or completely ignore) anything that doesn't fit in with your worldview. Again, I don't care in the slightest if you avoid meat and animal products, just accept that a lot of us do not agree with you and we are not going to change just because you think you have a "superior dietary choice".

I'm not a vegan.

I just don't find it hard to accept that it would be a better diet and find it amazing how determined other people are to defend their choice.

I accept that eating meat is a worse choice.

Good on ya, but that's your choice. I respect that and honestly couldn't care less what anyone ate because it's their choice of lifestyle as an individual. It's just so strawberry floating annoying when Vegans, Veggies, people like yourself just cannot accept not everyone thinks like them or leads a lifestyle like them.

KjGarly wrote:So these 'Raw Vegans', they grow their own clothes too? How about the devices they use to post their arrogant and totally bullshit opinions on? They home grown and recycled etc?

I imagine a lot do. You can also upcycle which is very popular these days with apps like "depop" and not limited to vegans. I sell my own range of environmentally friendly shirts which have a low carbon footprint (although yes do contribute slightly to CO2 emissions... 671g CO2 versus 6.574kg that it would be traditionally for a shirt in the same size), use recycled water, green energy, and workers throughout the chain are paid fairly.

It seems we have gone from meat is essential for our bodies those stupid environmentalists, to what's the point in even bothering to minimise their impact if they don't grow their own carrots. Why do anything in that case? You have convinced me to not even bother turning my lights off and just leave my taps running 24/7 as it's a lot more convenient to turning them on and off all the time.

I have spent too long in this topic and I have work to do. Enjoy your steaks :wub:

BID0 wrote:You have convinced me to not even bother turning my lights off and just leave my taps running 24/7 as it's a lot more convenient to turning them on and off all the time.

In my old flat the water bill was included in the annual maintenance fee so I could literally have done this at no extra cost :datass:

BID0 wrote: Enjoy your steaks

Will do, having those tomorrow. Rice Box from KF tonight and if the whole chicken and nothing but the chicken isn't in the box I'll be mighty upset.

I mean, there'll probably be some rice in there tho.

Oh for strawberry floats sake. Next you'll be telling me it has lettuce and mayo in it :roll:

Pancake wrote:There are other benefits to choosing a vegan diet, e.g. environmental.

Are there any benefits to eating meat other than that it tastes good?

It goes back to my earlier point: you can defend your right to eat meat and point out that eating meat is not inherently wrong but it's difficult to make a case that eating meat is the right thing to do.

I don't have a problem accepting that vegans have made the superior dietary choice. It's not surprising that some of them get a little sanctimonious.

It's primarily down to governments and farms to work together on legislation and iterate towards lowering the carbon footprint of meat. It's not the consumer's responsibility.

We'll end up lab-growing meat eventually which will probably provide meaningful progress on that front.

Combatting climate change has to involve international collaboration of governments, scientists and businesses. Torturing yourself with kale isn't going to save the environment.

For the record, I have no problem with vegans, I just find their reasoning spurious and selective when used against others.

I have nothing to contribute to this conversation, but this is sort of related and I saw it last night and it made me laugh so maybe it will make you laugh too.

twitter.com/MattOswaltVA/status/903834627768324096

twitter.com/MattOswaltVA/status/904205993898151936

KjGarly wrote: How about the devices they use to post their arrogant and totally bullshit opinions on? They home grown and recycled etc?

I seem to remember reading that gorillas are being killed in the Congo because of a material used in smartphones. Are smartphones essential?

I just don't see why people need to (or want to) label themselves. Why not just eat what you want and get on with your life? Why the need to proselytise?

Karl wrote:
Pancake wrote:There are other benefits to choosing a vegan diet, e.g. environmental.

Are there any benefits to eating meat other than that it tastes good?

It goes back to my earlier point: you can defend your right to eat meat and point out that eating meat is not inherently wrong but it's difficult to make a case that eating meat is the right thing to do.

I don't have a problem accepting that vegans have made the superior dietary choice. It's not surprising that some of them get a little sanctimonious.

It's primarily down to governments and farms to work together on legislation and iterate towards lowering the carbon footprint of meat. It's not the consumer's responsibility.

We'll end up lab-growing meat eventually which will probably provide meaningful progress on that front.

Combatting climate change has to involve international collaboration of governments, scientists and businesses. Torturing yourself with kale isn't going to save the environment.

We're going in circles. I've said I agree with the above. I'm making a very simple point:

Does a meat based diet provide adequate nutritional benefit and taste nice? Yes.
Does a plant based diet provide adequate nutritional benefit and taste nice? Yes, but maybe not quite as nice.

Is a meat based diet healthy? Certainly can be but probably slightly higher risk than a plant based one, although more research is needed.
Is a plant based diet healthy? Certainly can be.

Are there animal welfare issues related to the neat industry? Yes.
Are there animal welfare issues related to the plant industry? Probably but not nearly as many.

Are there environmental issues arising from the meat industry? Yes.
Are there environmental issues arising from the plant industry? Yes but current evidence suggests not nearly to the same degree.

Whether it's up to governments to legislate for animal welfare and environmental issues is besides the point. As far as I can see, a plant based diet is a better diet because it has fewer issues. When I asked people to give me some benefits to a meat based diet I got the usual tired arguments about meat being nutritious (sure, so are plants) and how there are environmental issues related to a vegan diet (sure but it's not as bad, according to latest evidence).

I'm not telling you what to eat. I'm not telling you to go vegan. I'm not saying eating meat is wrong. I'm just pointing out that a vegan diet is logically better.

Skarjo wrote:I don't grasp what is inherently wrong about eating meat. There are environmental and social issues linked to eating meat, sure, but there are also environmental and social issues from having all varieties fruit and veg available all year round.

What's the environmental impact of flying tonnes of exotic plants and veg around the world so that all veg is always available all the time, pesky old-timey concerns like being 'in-season' be damned? What's the social impact of the child labour used on coffee farms? What's the social impact on starving subsistence farmers who're no longer able to feed themselves because the international market for Quinoa has priced them out of their own market?

Unless you grow all your food out of your own personal allotment (ground which could be used for affordable public housing - ah gooseberry fool even that has a social consequence) then every dietary choice we make is a trade off. There's no 'superior' choice.

Any vegan/veggie advocates addressed some of these concerns yet? How much of a nutritionally sufficient plant based diet is actually grown locally? How much is it possible to grow locally?

Flying plants around the world is not eco-friendly.

Last edited by BID0 on Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jenuall wrote:
Skarjo wrote:I don't grasp what is inherently wrong about eating meat. There are environmental and social issues linked to eating meat, sure, but there are also environmental and social issues from having all varieties fruit and veg available all year round.

What's the environmental impact of flying tonnes of exotic plants and veg around the world so that all veg is always available all the time, pesky old-timey concerns like being 'in-season' be damned? What's the social impact of the child labour used on coffee farms? What's the social impact on starving subsistence farmers who're no longer able to feed themselves because the international market for Quinoa has priced them out of their own market?

Unless you grow all your food out of your own personal allotment (ground which could be used for affordable public housing - ah gooseberry fool even that has a social consequence) then every dietary choice we make is a trade off. There's no 'superior' choice.

Any vegan/veggie advocates addressed some of these concerns yet? How much of a nutritionally sufficient plant based diet is actually grown locally? How much is it possible to grow locally?

Flying plants around the world is not eco-friendly.

You can get everything the body needs locally other than vitamin B12. What exactly can't you find locally? Type it in to google and it'll tell you what foods contain it.

Preezy wrote:...Why the need to proselytise?

Blimey, Preezy - I genuinely had to look up the meaning of that word :lol:

.

I just read this whole thread and, worryingly, the question that stands out in my mind is this - why is bestiality illegal? If it's a matter of consent, surely they'd rather be shagged than eaten?

Also, is it legal to kill and eat pets?

BID0 wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Skarjo wrote:I don't grasp what is inherently wrong about eating meat. There are environmental and social issues linked to eating meat, sure, but there are also environmental and social issues from having all varieties fruit and veg available all year round.

What's the environmental impact of flying tonnes of exotic plants and veg around the world so that all veg is always available all the time, pesky old-timey concerns like being 'in-season' be damned? What's the social impact of the child labour used on coffee farms? What's the social impact on starving subsistence farmers who're no longer able to feed themselves because the international market for Quinoa has priced them out of their own market?

Unless you grow all your food out of your own personal allotment (ground which could be used for affordable public housing - ah gooseberry fool even that has a social consequence) then every dietary choice we make is a trade off. There's no 'superior' choice.

Any vegan/veggie advocates addressed some of these concerns yet? How much of a nutritionally sufficient plant based diet is actually grown locally? How much is it possible to grow locally?

Flying plants around the world is not eco-friendly.

You can get everything the body needs locally other than vitamin B12. What exactly can't you find locally? Type it in to google and it'll tell you what foods contain it.

Interesting. As someone from the UK what would my locally sourced, nutritionally sufficient diet look like throughout the seasons?

Genuinely curious as my previous understanding was that this was not achievable. If it is theoretically possible then were I to consider adopting it other considerations would have to be cost and, of course, how tasty and varied it can be.

KFC's new offensive, misleading and distressing TV commercial...

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