Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Mafrozen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:11 pm

It's pretty disgusting he's basically been blacklisted by the NFL because of his protest.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:14 pm

Pancake wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:It's not a flag protest. :fp:

Sorry national anthem protest. Can't say I'm that interested in it to be honest as I don't see it as remotely controversial. I can't remember the last time I stood for a national anthem.

Swing and a miss. That's not what they're protesting either.

Although I'm impressed that Trump's loud-mouthed idiocy seems to have convinced most people that it is.

It's a protest against black deaths at the hands of America's Police.


It sort of is a flag / national anthem protest though, isn't it? I mean, sure, he's not protesting about the existence of flags (down with this sort of thing) but he chose to use the national anthem to make his point about black deaths at the hands of America's police and when asked to explain he said 'I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color'. I guess it's good to make sure people know why he is protesting but personally I don't have much problem with people calling it a flag protest as a kind of shorthand.


Saying it’s an anthem/flag protest completely misses the point of the protest. It’s like saying that Rosa Parks was protesting against buses.

She used the bus to make a wider point about segregation, Kaepernick is using the anthem to protest police brutality.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Pancake » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:29 pm

Moggy wrote:
Pancake wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:It's not a flag protest. :fp:

Sorry national anthem protest. Can't say I'm that interested in it to be honest as I don't see it as remotely controversial. I can't remember the last time I stood for a national anthem.

Swing and a miss. That's not what they're protesting either.

Although I'm impressed that Trump's loud-mouthed idiocy seems to have convinced most people that it is.

It's a protest against black deaths at the hands of America's Police.


It sort of is a flag / national anthem protest though, isn't it? I mean, sure, he's not protesting about the existence of flags (down with this sort of thing) but he chose to use the national anthem to make his point about black deaths at the hands of America's police and when asked to explain he said 'I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color'. I guess it's good to make sure people know why he is protesting but personally I don't have much problem with people calling it a flag protest as a kind of shorthand.


Saying it’s an anthem/flag protest completely misses the point of the protest. It’s like saying that Rosa Parks was protesting against buses.

She used the bus to make a wider point about segregation, Kaepernick is using the anthem to protest police brutality.


I wouldn't say it completely misses the point because that implies people think he is actually protesting about flags. :lol:

I don't disagree with your point but it feels like splitting hairs to me, taking objection for the sake of it.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:37 pm

Pancake wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Pancake wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:It's not a flag protest. :fp:

Sorry national anthem protest. Can't say I'm that interested in it to be honest as I don't see it as remotely controversial. I can't remember the last time I stood for a national anthem.

Swing and a miss. That's not what they're protesting either.

Although I'm impressed that Trump's loud-mouthed idiocy seems to have convinced most people that it is.

It's a protest against black deaths at the hands of America's Police.


It sort of is a flag / national anthem protest though, isn't it? I mean, sure, he's not protesting about the existence of flags (down with this sort of thing) but he chose to use the national anthem to make his point about black deaths at the hands of America's police and when asked to explain he said 'I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color'. I guess it's good to make sure people know why he is protesting but personally I don't have much problem with people calling it a flag protest as a kind of shorthand.


Saying it’s an anthem/flag protest completely misses the point of the protest. It’s like saying that Rosa Parks was protesting against buses.

She used the bus to make a wider point about segregation, Kaepernick is using the anthem to protest police brutality.


I wouldn't say it completely misses the point because that implies people think he is actually protesting about flags. :lol:

I don't disagree with your point but it feels like splitting hairs to me, taking objection for the sake of it.


Maybe it is splitting hairs but in this case I think it’s necessary as the Fox News types are presenting this as a protest against the flag, against the anthem and against veterans. Saying “flag protest” misses the reasons behind it.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Pancake » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:53 pm

People should know why he is doing it, no doubt.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by lex-man » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:19 pm

Rosa Parks wasn't protesting anything she was trying to get home and got thrown off a bus.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Rightey » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:33 am

Hime wrote:
Rightey wrote:Something from another forum that describes how these pro gun people think...

The worst mass shooting was "The Wounded Knee Massacre" In which the US government killed 250 to 300 Indians a lot of which were women and children, thus proving that if bureaucrats decide something is worth it, they will do it. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, This reinforces my want and need for the civilian population to have weapons so that we as a nation, can prevent the trampling of the rights we were given at birth, or even the direction we are takeing as a nation. Unfortunately it looks like we don't have just the government to worry about, but also a portion of the civilian populace that want to restrict our rights (any of them) as well as them wanting the country to go in a direction a lot feel it shouldnt.


Basically these shootings are just the price of freedom in their minds, so really until they are killed it doesn't matter how many people get murdered.

I do think the US genuinely has a different attitude towards the law and how acceptable it is to take it into your own hands than most of the world, and I think that mentality combined with the terrible health services probably leads to a lot of these shootings, more so than just lots of guns.

It's the talk of restricting rights and second amendment stuff I find most baffling. Mainly the idea that a set of laws written 200 years ago is still applicable today and are "birth rights". Also, the country doesn't seem too worried about overlooking some of the other amendments when it suits.


The problem is they see the government as always on the verge of tyranny and considering the messed up crap the government has gotten up to in the past it's not hard to imagine they would start trying to oppress people. So for a lot of these gun nuts they see arming themselves as the best way to avoid having their rights trampled on.

After all just remember to this day many consider the Confederate South to have been victims of Federal overreach by the government so it's not really a crazy belief for these people that it will happen again.

Another issue is that people in the US are just more prone to violence in general. I remember reading a study that looked at peoples perceptions about if it was acceptable or not to use violence to get what you want. It compared a bunch of different countries, and pretty much all except for the US had 97% of respondents saying violence was never appropriate, while in the US it was something like 85%. :dread:

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Alvin Flummux » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:48 am

Even Antonin Scalia thought the 2nd amendment should only apply to firearms common in the 18th century Americas.

Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by KK » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:11 am

If you follow or look at Americans on social media, an astonishing amount tend to fall into the following two types of category...

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:25 am

Is “lone gunmen don’t break hotel windows” going to be the new “jet fuel doesn’t melt steel”?

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Photek » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:36 am

Literally had an argument this morning with the missus. She was like "so now every shooting has to have a conspiracy?" and I was like, who's making sh*t up now? Of course it was Facebook and it was her cousin who I'm starting to think is too stupid to be able to function in real life. I blocked her several years ago after stating I'm unfriending and blocking any mother f**ker who says happy St PATTY'S day (jesus christ).

Anyway I start calling her names and how f*cking brain dead she is and she's like "she just wondering" "what did she post?" "she posted a story about 2 or more shooters in Las Vegas and said "whats up with this?". I went full medieval in my sheer vile and outrage, after the election, after all the bullshit, after sandy hook and after all the false bollocks I think posting any link to factually inaccurate 'opinion pieces' is abhorrent. I'm going to meet this bitch in US in 2 weeks at a party and I'm gonna blank her out right, I don't give a f**K.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:41 am

Photek wrote:Literally had an argument this morning with the missus. She was like "so now every shooting has to have a conspiracy?" and I was like, who's making sh*t up now? Of course it was Facebook and it was her cousin who I'm starting to think is too stupid to be able to function in real life. I blocked her several years ago after stating I'm unfriending and blocking any mother f**ker who says happy St PATTY'S day (jesus christ).

Anyway I start calling her names and how f*cking brain dead she is and she's like "she just wondering" "what did she post?" "she posted a story about 2 or more shooters in Las Vegas and said "whats up with this?". I went full medieval in my sheer vile and outrage, after the election, after all the bullshit, after sandy hook and after all the false bollocks I think posting any link to factually inaccurate 'opinion pieces' is abhorrent. I'm going to meet this bitch in US in 2 weeks at a party and I'm gonna blank her out right, I don't give a f**K.


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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Photek » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:44 am

:datass:

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Mafrozen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:10 am

Dblock :o

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Poser » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:13 am

Photek wrote:Literally had an argument this morning with the missus. She was like "so now every shooting has to have a conspiracy?" and I was like, who's making sh*t up now? Of course it was Facebook and it was her cousin who I'm starting to think is too stupid to be able to function in real life. I blocked her several years ago after stating I'm unfriending and blocking any mother f**ker who says happy St PATTY'S day (jesus christ).

Anyway I start calling her names and how f*cking brain dead she is and she's like "she just wondering" "what did she post?" "she posted a story about 2 or more shooters in Las Vegas and said "whats up with this?". I went full medieval in my sheer vile and outrage, after the election, after all the bullshit, after sandy hook and after all the false bollocks I think posting any link to factually inaccurate 'opinion pieces' is abhorrent. I'm going to meet this bitch in US in 2 weeks at a party and I'm gonna blank her out right, I don't give a f**K.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ive-police

Las Vegas sheriff: gunman planned to survive and may have had help

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Photek » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:37 am

Poser wrote:
Photek wrote:Literally had an argument this morning with the missus. She was like "so now every shooting has to have a conspiracy?" and I was like, who's making sh*t up now? Of course it was Facebook and it was her cousin who I'm starting to think is too stupid to be able to function in real life. I blocked her several years ago after stating I'm unfriending and blocking any mother f**ker who says happy St PATTY'S day (jesus christ).

Anyway I start calling her names and how f*cking brain dead she is and she's like "she just wondering" "what did she post?" "she posted a story about 2 or more shooters in Las Vegas and said "whats up with this?". I went full medieval in my sheer vile and outrage, after the election, after all the bullshit, after sandy hook and after all the false bollocks I think posting any link to factually inaccurate 'opinion pieces' is abhorrent. I'm going to meet this bitch in US in 2 weeks at a party and I'm gonna blank her out right, I don't give a f**K.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ive-police

Las Vegas sheriff: gunman planned to survive and may have had help

IDGI, article mentions that the sherriff suggested (and not the FBI) he may have had help at some point before the shooting, not that there were more than one shooter...??

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Poser » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:52 am

Photek wrote:
Poser wrote:
Photek wrote:Literally had an argument this morning with the missus. She was like "so now every shooting has to have a conspiracy?" and I was like, who's making sh*t up now? Of course it was Facebook and it was her cousin who I'm starting to think is too stupid to be able to function in real life. I blocked her several years ago after stating I'm unfriending and blocking any mother f**ker who says happy St PATTY'S day (jesus christ).

Anyway I start calling her names and how f*cking brain dead she is and she's like "she just wondering" "what did she post?" "she posted a story about 2 or more shooters in Las Vegas and said "whats up with this?". I went full medieval in my sheer vile and outrage, after the election, after all the bullshit, after sandy hook and after all the false bollocks I think posting any link to factually inaccurate 'opinion pieces' is abhorrent. I'm going to meet this bitch in US in 2 weeks at a party and I'm gonna blank her out right, I don't give a f**K.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ive-police

Las Vegas sheriff: gunman planned to survive and may have had help

IDGI, article mentions that the sherriff suggested (and not the FBI) he may have had help at some point before the shooting, not that there were more than one shooter...??


Sorry, I wasn't clear: I wasn't arguing with you, I hate the conspiracies too (see my post in the conspiracy theory thread), but the idea that he may have had help will undermine the 'lone wolf' narrative.

I must say, of all the shootings of recent times, this one appears to have the most confusing elements - or at least the most stuff that doesn't quite add up. It'll play into the hands of conspiracy mentalists.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Photek » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:53 am

Poser wrote:
Photek wrote:
Poser wrote:
Photek wrote:Literally had an argument this morning with the missus. She was like "so now every shooting has to have a conspiracy?" and I was like, who's making sh*t up now? Of course it was Facebook and it was her cousin who I'm starting to think is too stupid to be able to function in real life. I blocked her several years ago after stating I'm unfriending and blocking any mother f**ker who says happy St PATTY'S day (jesus christ).

Anyway I start calling her names and how f*cking brain dead she is and she's like "she just wondering" "what did she post?" "she posted a story about 2 or more shooters in Las Vegas and said "whats up with this?". I went full medieval in my sheer vile and outrage, after the election, after all the bullshit, after sandy hook and after all the false bollocks I think posting any link to factually inaccurate 'opinion pieces' is abhorrent. I'm going to meet this bitch in US in 2 weeks at a party and I'm gonna blank her out right, I don't give a f**K.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ive-police

Las Vegas sheriff: gunman planned to survive and may have had help

IDGI, article mentions that the sherriff suggested (and not the FBI) he may have had help at some point before the shooting, not that there were more than one shooter...??


Sorry, I wasn't clear: I wasn't arguing with you, I hate the conspiracies too (see my post in the conspiracy theory thread), but the idea that he may have had help will undermine the 'lone wolf' narrative.

I must say, of all the shootings of recent times, this one appears to have the most confusing elements - or at least the most stuff that doesn't quite add up. It'll play into the hands of conspiracy mentalists.

I'd be interested to see the hotel footage of him bringing the guns up alright. I personally think he had a gun fetish and was fed up shooting at tin cans.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:14 am

Photek wrote:I'd be interested to see the hotel footage of him bringing the guns up alright. I personally think he had a gun fetish and was fed up shooting at tin cans.


Having a gun fetish is not all that unusual for Americans…

I am not sure we will ever know his motivations, but I don’t like the suggestions that he “snapped”, this wasn’t a situation where somebody snapped, grabbed a gun and went shooting. This dickhead must have been planning it for some time. The preparation involved in booking a room on the side of the hotel to be able to shoot at the concert, getting all of the guns and ammunition together, getting the guns to Vegas/into the room, setting up cameras to see when the police/FBI approached his room.

None of that sounds like somebody that has just snapped and goes out in a rage, that’s a high level of premeditated preparation.

I guess that’s why the conspiracy theories flourish with cases like this, it’s almost unbelievable that one person can do it and it is scary to think that just one person can cause such carnage.

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PostRe: Las Vegas Shooting. 59 dead. Over 515 Injured.
by Poser » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:17 am

Moggy wrote:
I guess that’s why the conspiracy theories flourish with cases like this, it’s almost unbelievable that one person can do it and it is scary to think that just one person can cause such carnage.


That's very much how Dan Carlin starts his Blueprint for Armageddon series: he posits that conspiracies sit so well because people feel safer knowing that there are greater agencies at work, even if those agencies are committed to doing bad things.

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