Making a Murderer - Netflix

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Kanbei
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
Location: Belfast

PostMaking a Murderer - Netflix
by Kanbei » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:04 pm

Just binge watched the entire thing. My face during most of it :dread: :dread: :dread:

User avatar
Slayerx
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Slayerx » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:09 pm

I found it difficult to watch as I felt so sorry for his cousin/nephew?

I haven't finished it yet but it's heartbreaking and baffles me how there getting away with what they have done.

User avatar
Captain Kinopio
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Herbi
Location: The Observatory

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Captain Kinopio » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:11 pm

Only just watched ep5 so be wary of spoilers please.

It's strawberry floating crazy, best thing I've seen on Netflix this year.

User avatar
Fargo
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Fargo » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:12 pm

Really compelling viewing. I've one episode left myself. Spoilers below.

There's no strawberry floating way either of them should have been convicted beyond all reasonable doubt for those crimes, especially Brendan. If the show was accurate in it's depiction of the evidence I honestly can't understand returning a guilty verdict. What's worse is it means someone out there most likely got away with murder as a result. I haven't finished watching the show so I'll reserve final judgement until then but looking at stuff like this http://www.maxim.com/entertainment/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-2015-12 I'd love to get a full breakdown of all the evidence.

User avatar
degoose
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by degoose » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:24 pm

What is it actually about. I noticed it on Netflix and was intrigued.

Image
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega"
Steam:degoose, Xbox:degoose v2 , PSN:degoose, Switch: 0760-2133-6729
User avatar
Mockmaster
Moderator
Joined in 2008
Location: Cybertron

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Mockmaster » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:44 pm

I've binge watched the first 8 episodes.

So good.

Well, bearing in mind the misfortunes of the people involved.

Image
User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Grumpy David » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:44 pm

Logical thing to do with spoilers, particularly on a Netflix show where it's usually all available on day 1 is to say "spoilers relating to episode" or whatever it is so people know if they should expand the spoiler box.

I'm on episode 3 currently, it's hard to believe I'm watching a documentary at times, feels almost surreal.

Tesco's Finest degoose fat wrote:What is it actually about. I noticed it on Netflix and was intrigued.


Netflix original documentary.

The story is about a man sent to prison for 18 years for a crime he didn't commit and how the justice system didn't work, the story only gets stranger once he gets out of prison. I've deliberately went with a very basic summary as I think it works best going in blind to it. It is seriously good from what little I've seen of it so far.

User avatar
Photek
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Dublin

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Photek » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:11 am

Who killed that girl though? I reckon she shot herself in head, police found her, burned her and set up Avery.

Image
User avatar
degoose
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by degoose » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:29 am

Grumpy David wrote:Logical thing to do with spoilers, particularly on a Netflix show where it's usually all available on day 1 is to say "spoilers relating to episode" or whatever it is so people know if they should expand the spoiler box.

I'm on episode 3 currently, it's hard to believe I'm watching a documentary at times, feels almost surreal.

Tesco's Finest degoose fat wrote:What is it actually about. I noticed it on Netflix and was intrigued.


Netflix original documentary.

The story is about a man sent to prison for 18 years for a crime he didn't commit and how the justice system didn't work, the story only gets stranger once he gets out of prison. I've deliberately went with a very basic summary as I think it works best going in blind to it. It is seriously good from what little I've seen of it so far.

Cheers , I quickly checked some spoiler free reviews on imdb as well. It sounds brilliant and my kind of thing.

Image
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega"
Steam:degoose, Xbox:degoose v2 , PSN:degoose, Switch: 0760-2133-6729
User avatar
Mockmaster
Moderator
Joined in 2008
Location: Cybertron

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Mockmaster » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:53 pm

Having finished the series... and done a bit of reading about what was not included in the documentary, and despite the clear flaws in the legal system and police conduct on display, I am now fairly convinced that at least Steven Avery is in fact guilty.

Some of the evidence not used in the documentary:

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_an ... resent.php

— The documentary said that part of Avery’s criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn’t specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).
— Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.
— In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.
— Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.
— On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.
— The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.
— Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).
— Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence.

Image
User avatar
Preezy
Skeletor
Joined in 2009

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Preezy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:56 pm

To be fair though, that Avery looks like a wrong'n.

Image
User avatar
satriales
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by satriales » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:17 pm

This really is an incredible piece of TV. I would say it's the best documentary I've ever seen but for the fact that it clearly has an agenda.

I didn't know anything about the case going in except that Avery had been found innocent and released from prison after many years. I assumed that the title of the show meant that the documentary was going to be about how that experience led to him committing murder after his release, I was not expecting it to be another set-up.

The thing that got me most was the way they 'interviewed' his nephew. They clearly got him to say yes to the things they wanted him to admit to and created the story which put him in jail until he's in his 50s. Just seeing them pull him out of his special education class, co-oerce him into a confession without him knowing what he was doing, and then knowing that his life is being ruined right there in that moment is one of the most shocking scenes I've ever seen.

The stuff with the blood vial, the licence plate, and the key clearly show that there was tampering/planting of evidence. Whether Avery is guilty or not, the police set him up.

User avatar
Fargo
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Fargo » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:14 pm

Mockmaster wrote:Having finished the series... and done a bit of reading about what was not included in the documentary, and despite the clear flaws in the legal system and police conduct on display, I am now fairly convinced that at least Steven Avery is in fact guilty.

Some of the evidence not used in the documentary:

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_an ... resent.php

— The documentary said that part of Avery’s criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn’t specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).
— Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.
— In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.
— Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.
— On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.
— The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.
— Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).
— Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence.


That's interesting. I love to know the film makers reasons for excluding some of that.

User avatar
satriales
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by satriales » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:00 pm

Fargo wrote:
Mockmaster wrote:Having finished the series... and done a bit of reading about what was not included in the documentary, and despite the clear flaws in the legal system and police conduct on display, I am now fairly convinced that at least Steven Avery is in fact guilty.

Some of the evidence not used in the documentary:

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_an ... resent.php

— The documentary said that part of Avery’s criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn’t specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).
— Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.
— In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.
— Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.
— On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.
— The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.
— Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).
— Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence.


That's interesting. I love to know the film makers reasons for excluding some of that.


The first two points definitely were in the series. They mention him throwing the family cat on the fire and missing the birth of his kid because he was in jail for that cat incident. The second point about threatening a relative was also discussed in detail in episode 1, and it was because her husband worked in the police department that they made it out into a bigger issue than it was. It's also likely to be what led to them setting him up for the rape.

I've been reading up more on the case and saw an interview with one of defense lawyers where he says the documentary does a good job of showing all of the major evidence, but that the real trial was 6 weeks long and they had to cut out some minor parts from both sides to fit it into 2-3hrs.

User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Grumpy David » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:55 pm

Finished.

Cops had to have been dodgy and planted evidence like the car key in the bedroom, it's near impossible to believe they only found the RAV4 car key upon the 7th search. The blood evidence tampering also seems suspect but the tech isn't good enough to fully verify if there was EDTA in the blood.

The series left me in no doubt that Avery and Daessy had been strawberry floated over (both being well below average IQ didn't help them) but those two articles have caused me to think perhaps they did do it and whilst they are guilty of the crime, they still didn't get a fair trial.

I don't know what to believe now.

User avatar
Fargo
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Fargo » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:27 pm

Actually reading back on those points that Mockmaster linked to I think the only one that seems really relevant is the second piece of DNA evidence from the car.

User avatar
Alvin Flummux
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Wilmington, OH, USA
Contact:

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:14 pm

Watched the first episode. It made me very angry, what thy did to him, and what they think they can do next. Little Hitlers.

Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
User avatar
Buffalo
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Buffalo » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:48 pm

How many episodes is it?

Image
User avatar
Kanbei
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
Location: Belfast

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Kanbei » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:07 pm

There Will Not Be A Four wrote:How many episodes is it?


10 episodes, around an hour for each one.

User avatar
Ecno
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: There're no Wolves

PostRe: Making a Murderer - Netflix
by Ecno » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:13 pm

So I binged watch this is the last 2 evenings

The way the film is presented is seems like that the prosecution did not prove the cases beyond reasonable doubt. However I've always taken the opinion that the determination of someone's innocence is taken by the jury and should not be determined by public reaction to partial media accounts and I stand by that opinion here.

I would also hazard a guess that the presentation of this film sways people more than it should because it makes such an incredible story that they want him to be innocent (myself included).

Based on some points above, it also sounds like the documentary missed out some strong pieces of circumstantial prosecutor evidence.


As a piece of 'entertainment' it's worth watching.

http://www.phantomgoal.com

Football Betting Analysis and other related topics.

Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Boo!, Denster, Dowbocop, Finish.Last, Glowy69, Hime, more heat than light, Pattybean, Shafto, Snowcannon, the eponymous bollock and 54 guests