AI Thread

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: AI Thread
by Grumpy David » Sun May 28, 2023 7:47 am

twitter.com/JonHaidt/status/1662487151911526400


User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: AI Thread
by Grumpy David » Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:33 pm

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-future-combat-air-space-capabilities-summit/

As might be expected artificial intelligence (AI) and its exponential growth was a major theme at the conference, from secure data clouds, to quantum computing and ChatGPT. However, perhaps one of the most fascinating presentations came from Col Tucker ‘Cinco’ Hamilton, the Chief of AI Test and Operations, USAF, who provided an insight into the benefits and hazards in more autonomous weapon systems. Having been involved in the development of the life-saving Auto-GCAS system for F-16s (which, he noted, was resisted by pilots as it took over control of the aircraft) Hamilton is now involved in cutting-edge flight test of autonomous systems, including robot F-16s that are able to dogfight. However, he cautioned against relying too much on AI noting how easy it is to trick and deceive. It also creates highly unexpected strategies to achieve its goal.

He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human.

However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: “We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat.

The system started realising that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.”

He went on: “We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.”


AI taking everyone's jobs seems a small concern compared with letting it get the Skynet origin story. :dread:

User avatar
SEP
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: AI Thread
by SEP » Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:47 am

Image

Image
User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: AI Thread
by Moggy » Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:14 pm

Grumpy David wrote:https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-future-combat-air-space-capabilities-summit/

As might be expected artificial intelligence (AI) and its exponential growth was a major theme at the conference, from secure data clouds, to quantum computing and ChatGPT. However, perhaps one of the most fascinating presentations came from Col Tucker ‘Cinco’ Hamilton, the Chief of AI Test and Operations, USAF, who provided an insight into the benefits and hazards in more autonomous weapon systems. Having been involved in the development of the life-saving Auto-GCAS system for F-16s (which, he noted, was resisted by pilots as it took over control of the aircraft) Hamilton is now involved in cutting-edge flight test of autonomous systems, including robot F-16s that are able to dogfight. However, he cautioned against relying too much on AI noting how easy it is to trick and deceive. It also creates highly unexpected strategies to achieve its goal.

He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human.

However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: “We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat.

The system started realising that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.”

He went on: “We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.”


AI taking everyone's jobs seems a small concern compared with letting it get the Skynet origin story. :dread:


twitter.com/sababausa/status/1664595417655377921



:lol:

User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: AI Thread
by Moggy » Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:47 pm

twitter.com/casualthursday/status/1666134186510503936


User avatar
Knoyleo
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: AI Thread
by Knoyleo » Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:55 am

Valve are now citing the use of AI generated assets trained on copyrighted material as a reason for not listing a game on the Steam store, apparently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aigamedev/comm ... s_with_ai/

Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore

Hey all,

I tried to release a game about a month ago, with a few assets that were fairly obviously AI generated. My plan was to just submit a rougher version of the game, with 2-3 assets/sprites that were admittedly obviously AI generated from the hands, and to improve them prior to actually releasing the game as I wasn't aware Steam had any issues with AI generated art. I received this message

Hello,

While we strive to ship most titles submitted to us, we cannot ship games for which the developer does not have all of the necessary rights.

After reviewing, we have identified intellectual property in [Game Name Here] which appears to belongs to one or more third parties. In particular, [Game Name Here] contains art assets generated by artificial intelligence that appears to be relying on copyrighted material owned by third parties. As the legal ownership of such AI-generated art is unclear, we cannot ship your game while it contains these AI-generated assets, unless you can affirmatively confirm that you own the rights to all of the IP used in the data set that trained the AI to create the assets in your game.

We are failing your build and will give you one (1) opportunity to remove all content that you do not have the rights to from your build.

If you fail to remove all such content, we will not be able to ship your game on Steam, and this app will be banned.


I improved those pieces by hand, so there were no longer any obvious signs of AI, but my app was probably already flagged for AI generated content, so even after resubmitting it, my app was rejected.

Hello,

Thank you for your patience as we reviewed [Game Name Here] and took our time to better understand the AI tech used to create it. Again, while we strive to ship most titles submitted to us, we cannot ship games for which the developer does not have all of the necessary rights. At this time, we are declining to distribute your game since it’s unclear if the underlying AI tech used to create the assets has sufficient rights to the training data.

App credits are usually non-refundable, but we’d like to make an exception here and offer you a refund. Please confirm and we’ll proceed.

Thanks,


It took them over a week to provide this verdict, while previous games I've released have been approved within a day or two, so it seems like Valve doesn't really have a standard approach to AI generated games yet, and I've seen several games up that even explicitly mention the use of AI. But at the moment at least, they seem wary, and not willing to publish AI generated content, so I guess for any other devs on here, be wary of that. I'll try itch io and see if they have any issues with AI generated games.



Edit: Didn't expect this post to go anywhere, mostly just posted it as an FYI to other devs, here are screenshots since people believe I'm fearmongering or something, though I can't really see what I'd have to gain from that.

Screenshots of rejection message



Looks like they're chucking together policy on the fly about this, but they're obviously spooked about the possibility of selling games with AI generated assets only to get into trouble down the line if legislation comes out ruling that AI models need to have the rights to use the training data in order to be used for commercial purposes.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
User avatar
site23
Member
Joined in 2021

PostRe: AI Thread
by site23 » Fri Jun 30, 2023 10:15 am

It makes a lot of sense while the legal status is unclear.

Presumably, this only practically applies to unedited assets. In the case of people who are using it as a component (e.g. for reference images) in an otherwise "human" workflow, you'll just not tell anyone and no-one will know.

Image
Image
User avatar
Green Gecko
Treasurer
Joined in 2008

PostRe: AI Thread
by Green Gecko » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:15 pm

Tbh "improving" the assets is kind of half arsed, so I can see Valve's point beyond a copyright status scare. Use the AI generated image as reference for sure but then just redraw the whole thing or get an artist to do it. You will still save a huge amount of "unnecessary" time wasting your artist's time with your inability to clearly articulate needs or make any decisions, or in many cases provide the simplest directions besides, "make it cool", "make it funky", "make it interesting" and similarly endless halfarsery.

"It should be common sense to just accept the message Nintendo are sending out through their actions."
_________________________________________

❤ btw GRcade costs money and depends on donations - please support one of the UK's oldest video gaming forums → HOW TO DONATE
User avatar
Ironhide
Fiend
Joined in 2008
Location: Autobot City

PostRe: AI Thread
by Ironhide » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:51 pm

Do human artists need to have legal ownership over all the reference material they use?

I don't really get the whole worry about AI generated images breaking copyright rules other than when someone, for example, trains an AI solely on images of a certain character/artists style in order to replicate it for personal gain/fraud but what about AI models trained on much wider 'generic' datasets to create something like fanart (labeled as such), is that really any different to a hobbyist artist drawing a picture of Batman or painting in the style of Picasso?

Image
User avatar
DML
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: AI Thread
by DML » Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:39 pm

Ironhide wrote:Do human artists need to have legal ownership over all the reference material they use?

I don't really get the whole worry about AI generated images breaking copyright rules other than when someone, for example, trains an AI solely on images of a certain character/artists style in order to replicate it for personal gain/fraud but what about AI models trained on much wider 'generic' datasets to create something like fanart (labeled as such), is that really any different to a hobbyist artist drawing a picture of Batman or painting in the style of Picasso?


I suppose the person who does the Picasso pic has worked hard/spent hours on it and then AI can just come along use that as a reference within millions and generate in 30 seconds. Any artist with a body of work would be worried, because they'll recieve no AI payments whatsoever, if anything they may need to pay the same AI copying their own art money to be able to keep up. Its actually a bit strawberry floated up they dont need to own the images.

User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: AI Thread
by Grumpy David » Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:34 am


User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: AI Thread
by Grumpy David » Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:47 am

twitter.com/fablesimulation/status/1681352904152850437



twitter.com/fablesimulation/status/1681352914043015168



twitter.com/fablesimulation/status/1681352917218107392


User avatar
Grumpy David
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: AI Thread
by Grumpy David » Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:06 pm

AI winning at racing drones.


User avatar
DML
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: AI Thread
by DML » Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:50 am

Every single one of these generated voice things seems to prioritise sounding like a depressed robot.

User avatar
Knoyleo
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: AI Thread
by Knoyleo » Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:44 am

DML wrote:Every single one of these generated voice things seems to prioritise sounding like a depressed robot.

Very prescient, because once we're all replaced by AI, that's exactly how real people will sound!

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
User avatar
Garth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
Location: Norn Iron

PostRe: AI Thread
by Garth » Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:32 am



User avatar
RichardUK
Purchased simply because it's an Apple product
Joined in 2015
Location: Nottinghamshire & Bavaria
Contact:

PostRe: AI Thread
by RichardUK » Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:24 am

This is a photo of me as a Disney character apparently, at least as a Disney character I have more hair

Image

Image
'Put on a proper suit, do up your tie and sing the national anthem'
instagram - richardbatesuk
User avatar
Garth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
Location: Norn Iron

PostRe: AI Thread
by Garth » Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:40 pm

The OpenAI board fired their CEO last week, Microsoft has hired him and several others from his team:

twitter.com/satyanadella/status/1726509045803336122


And we’re extremely excited to share the news that Sam Altman and Greg Brockman, together with colleagues, will be joining Microsoft to lead a new advanced AI research team. We look forward to moving quickly to provide them with the resources needed for their success.


twitter.com/WIRED/status/1726597509215027347


twitter.com/ilyasut/status/1726590052392956028


User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: AI Thread
by Moggy » Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:56 pm

With his sister making allegations of sexual abuse, hiring Sam Altman may well be a really strawberry floating stupid move by MS.

User avatar
Garth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
Location: Norn Iron

PostRe: AI Thread
by Garth » Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:57 pm

Garth wrote:

twitter.com/WIRED/status/1726597509215027347


twitter.com/lilianweng/status/1726634736943280270



Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rawrgna and 571 guests